Clave Question

[O Samba]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vdrummer:
[QB]Does anyone here know which clave pattern is normally used with different Latin/AfroCuban grooves? Son clave is just used with certain grooves and Rhumba others, right? I don't want to play antravasado (out of clave).

There's a lot of confusion about this, so let's see what I can do to dispel some of it. First of all, clave pertains only to Cuban music. The *principal* of clave, as a fundamental core rhythm upon which all other rhythmic layers are based, is common to all dance music in the Western world. So there are rhythms in most "world" music that *function* in similar ways to clave, but they mustn't be referred to as "clave." Most of the posts so far are giving good information on this, so there are just a few things I'll mention in regard to them.

Baion is indeed a Cuban rhythm. It was an older dance style and now mostly pertains to the dotted quarter bass pattern that is the first 3 notes of the 3-2 son clave. The "bai?o" is the name of a Brazilian style which also utilizes this pattern, but the rest of the rhythms and characteristics of the style are quite different from the Cuban.

Soca (short for SOul CAlypso) is a form of calypso, the dance music of Trinida. No clave.

Once the clave has been set in motion, the direction shouldn't change. It is certainly possible to find the verse of a mambo in 3-2 clave and the chorus in 2-3, but that is almost always accomplished by means of an odd number of measures in an end phrase, or a "dead" measure inserted. Ray Barreto is the master of this.

The old familiar bossa nova cross-stick rhythm is not a form of clave, even though some people refer to it as that. Although it's very similar to the son clave, that similarity is coincidental; the rhythm was put together by Antonio Carlos Jobim and Dom um Rom?o (who recently passed away) when recording "Chega de Saudade," the song credited with being the first bossa nova. The rhythm was conceived to complement the comping patterns of Jo?o Gilberto's guitar.

Much of the confusion over clave is the result of the dangerous inclination to lump all latin music together as one big group of closely related styles. It's much better to consider the various styles in reference to the countries from which they came, rather than trying to find a broad commonality. Although the ancestral root rhythms were originally from Africa, they underwent great transformations on their way to becoming the popular styles of the 20th century.

Best,
Doug

[cjbdrm]

Doug,

Welcome to the HOD forum!

Thank you for your valued input! Please don't be a stranger...you're in good company here. Lots of great players and information...

I'm definitely picking up your book/CD. I was impressed with what I saw and heard on your website! Man, I wish you were a little closer to Philly so I could study with you...

Man, I'd love to play in a Brazilian band on a regular basis...

[mkabal]

If you want to know the accents of the counties that are in question regarding the clave, ask Efrain Toro fi you can. Get his books, they will help. Don?t play patterns for the love of god. Play the music!!!!!!!!! And what ever you do? Don?t fuse the music of the countries. That?s like taking the flag of two countries and fusing the colors and designs. Bad Bad Bad.

[Vdrummer]

Excellent post Doug, and thanks for taking the time to clarify what exactly clave is. Your post was very helpful. Thanks again everyone.

Brad

[Vdrummer]

HenryII,

True. Usually when I am asked to play this stuff, they just say "Latin". If I played in a Salsa band or Samba band it might be a different story. However, I'd like to know enough to be able play authentically as well.

[Henry II]

Originally posted by mkabal:
If you want to know the accents of the counties that are in question regarding the clave, ask Efrain Toro fi you can. Get his books, they will help. Don?t play patterns for the love of god. Play the music!!!!!!!!! And what ever you do? Don?t fuse the music of the countries. That?s like taking the flag of two countries and fusing the colors and designs. Bad Bad Bad.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Only if you are playing with players from those countries who are closed minded. JMHO. Some patterns fit well together. I play a mosambique and mambo (with a cross-stick clave), over a samba foot pattern and it sounds great, and never a complaint.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 25, 2005 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Henry II ]</font>

[Avi_drums]

Originally posted by Doug Auwarter:

There's a lot of confusion about this, so let's see what I can do to dispel some of it. First of all, clave pertains only to Cuban music. The *principal* of clave, as a fundamental core rhythm upon which all other rhythmic layers are based, is common to all dance music in the Western world.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Excellent post, thanks.