freedom from the delusion of freedom

**SHATOUSHKA** · December 14th, 2001, 06:11 AM

ok. here is the thread i mentioned.
this is in response to mr. robin's 101 MPH thread.
it reminded me of good ol' john stuart mill (the poor thing).
i am posting what i told my teacher in the attempt to hit two birds with one stone:

1) to satisfy my reaction to mr. robin's thread

2) to have GP dismember the tangent

here it is:

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The biggest problem I find in Mill?s vision of a liberal society is the fact that I don?t think Mill is referring to the same type of animal our present society is currently made up of. Sometimes I wonder if Mill was really being serious. It would be nice to fantasize about an ideal society the way Mill illustrates it?a conglomeration of ones. But I do not think that Mill fully understands that he was discussing humans. People pretend to want freedoms similarly expressed in Mill?s work, but they deeply want to be governed. They desire the ruling hand. They need the instruction, the guide, the mother entity.
I wish that I had the heart to say that the reason why this is so, is because humans are cute little animals that can?t take care of themselves. Despite how cynically correct that sentence is, the true reason we need to be governed by the iron fist is because we can?t handle the responsibility of our own actions. We need something else, someone else, to blame when things go wrong. We (Americans) are a society of sniveling little brats that want to play with mommy?s oven or daddy?s chainsaw. Only after we burn the house down and kill our brother do we run to the same arms that nurtured us to be individuals and blame them for not being there for us.
Mill?s plan is as great as a fairy tale. I would like to believe it were possible. Sometimes if I try really hard, I can almost believe that we are. But Mill seems to want to bridge the gap between two worlds: that of the human and that of the animal. We simply cannot be self-governing in the way Mill describes it. We were like that once, several million years ago. We formed groups of like individuals, scavenged the land, fought off attackers different than us and developed a conscience.
Granted, Mill suggests that we will learn to grow educated and independent. Somehow I suppose we will cultivate future generations into these upstanding beings and, over time, filter out the waste material. I do not see that happening. It has been shown time and time again that when something personal is threatened, we revert back to our animalistic ancestry. Until that gene is replaced, Mill?s ideal society will be sitting next to my other classics of the same genre, including those of which contain plans of an Emerald City and Neverland.

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~~share some greased tea with me~~
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**Mr. Robin** · December 15th, 2001, 07:06 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"We have greater freedom with rules"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Foccault, a french Philosopher.

It depends entirely upon what is meant of the word 'Freedom', "Freedom from Fear" is what a good democratic government is meant to be providing us, by way of laws.

The freedom that I seek from the Canadian government is the freedom to have that which I have earned, the right to enjoy the fruits of my labors. Simple as that!

<marquee>Seasons Greetings</marquee>

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<marquee>My teacher is in all people, but not all people are my Teacher</marquee>

[This message has been edited by Mr. Robin (edited December 15, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Mr. Robin (edited December 17, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Mr. Robin (edited December 17, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Mr. Robin (edited December 17, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Mr. Robin (edited December 20, 2001).]

**Mr. Robin** · December 20th, 2001, 10:05 PM

The greatest delusion concering Freedom is when you are poor, monetarily speaking.

You have no responcibilities, no ties, complete freedom, at least it appears that way.

Truth is you cannot do anything, as you have no money, ergo, cannot eat when you want, you must eat when it is offered, cannot go anywhere because it cost$ money to travel, cannot count on a reasonable warm place to stay, warm and dry, because you live on the kindness of others, like it or not!

It is a form of open en-prisonment, the appearance of great freedom, but in reality it is a barely survivable existance, simply because of the manner in which our collective societies work things, by the rule of law.

Answer to that one, to come??????

<marquee><behaviour=slide>**************SEASONS GREETINGS TO ONE AND ALL*************</marquee>

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My Teacher is in all people, but not all people are my Teacher

[This message has been edited by Mr. Robin (edited December 20, 2001).]

**doodoo** · December 21st, 2001, 07:48 AM

Yes, Mr Robin. This is quite true. I often come to think that there is not anything like "freedom", but only "degrees of freedom", a quantitative value translated into one's savings account, and thus pertaining to social relativity.

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UlTm8 BOARDOM

**kurts ghost** · December 21st, 2001, 10:12 AM

i wont bother you lot anymore if you tell me who this guy on my photo is.

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Shred = emotion

**SHATOUSHKA** · December 22nd, 2001, 01:41 AM

just thought i'd burst in to answer ghost-man's question...

go to wa-ta-ta to find out.
(and if you haven't seen it...its a must.)

now...back to the seriousness of this freedom thing.

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~~share some greased tea with me~~
General Philosophy
Discuss This...
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**SHATOUSHKA** · December 22nd, 2001, 01:44 AM

i agree with doodoo.
(surprise, surprise) biggrin

there may be degrees of freedom (as well as other things)...but those degrees also have degrees...it just depends on which side of that (in)famous glass house you live on.

...i think. wink

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~~share some greased tea with me~~
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Discuss This...
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**Alex** · January 3rd, 2002, 08:57 AM

Shatzy, you must further evaluate how you "RUIN IT" by believing what you believe...

You know what you believe, but you should strive for more.

I see your vision/trait in many people I know who I consider to be quite intelligent.

This visionary vision of inevitable doom allows for these same intelligent individuals to withdraw from society, and in the process, deprive others of the very nutrient they need to grow.

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Alex

**SHATOUSHKA** · January 4th, 2002, 02:30 AM

alex--

please expound on this:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>and in the process, deprive others of the very nutrient they need to grow.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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~~share some greased tea with me~~
General Philosophy
Discuss This...
The Acropolis

**Alex** · January 7th, 2002, 05:28 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Alex:
Shatzy, you must further evaluate how you "RUIN IT" by believing what you believe...

You know what you believe, but you should strive for more.

I see your vision/trait in many people I know who I consider to be quite intelligent.

This visionary vision of inevitable doom allows for these same intelligent individuals to withdraw from society, and in the process, deprive others of the very nutrient OTHERS need for growth.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I changed the last part of the last sentence (and capitalized it)...is it any clearer now?

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Alex

[This message has been edited by Alex (edited January 09, 2002).]

Thread: freedom from the delusion of freedom

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