Let us not sit by as they erode our rights as Christians!

**sharlit** · December 8th, 2006, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by Tra:
I probably worded it wrong. My point was that in Christianity, it is not what WE do, but rather what GOD DID FOR US. It is not about us being "good enough" but rather us being loved enough by God.

But isn't it about being "good enough"? I mean, not all the things most people think it should be (like don't kill, don't lie, etc.), but it *is* about being good enough at accepting Christ as your savior.

**cebula_2005** · December 10th, 2006, 12:36 AM

The only thing you have to do in Christianity is accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. It's a free gift to you. Now, I"m not saying you can go around sinning...accepting Jesus as Lord means trying to do what is right, what He says. But it is not about what you do in that you can never do enough to bridge the gap between you and God. God knew that, so He sent His Son to bridge the gap for us.

**Miss_Nellie_OMalley** · December 10th, 2006, 07:03 PM

I just have to take a moment and applaud everyone for their mastery of circular logic. Bravo.

So far I have gathered that some people here feel it is their cosmic duty to remade Tra of her "delusions" I have never had any doubt that this board was made by a Christian for other Christians. By uncensored, forgive me for presuming, but I imagined that would mean a Christian could discuss theology openly and freely away from persecution with ANOTHER Christian.

Second, I have gathered that in the course of these "debates" those against the original poster are looking for a crash course in Theology 101. I'm sorry, before anyone can discuss this intelligently any further... you need to stop and go do some research and study on your own. I wouldn't go toe to toe with a Buddhist over their religious matter unless I had a firm understanding of their religious beliefs.

So lets get back to our regularly scheduled programs and stop trying to make Christians see the "error" of their ways. Have a nice day.

**cebula_2005** · December 11th, 2006, 03:04 AM

You bring up a good point: the word "Uncensored" in the title of the message board. You are pretty much right about what it means. That word should never have been added to the board, because it can be easily misconstrued. The word does not mean we can say whatever we want, but rather that we can discuss things respectfully and without fear of persecution or a quick shutting down of a thread if the talk gets too deep.

**OdeToEeyore** · December 13th, 2006, 02:44 AM

Wow...I wasn't even going to join this board, but after reading this thread I felt like I had to speak out.

Stormchaser and ZoZey: You both seem like very angry people, and it makes me think you are probably not as happy as you claim to be. Why are you so threatened by what Tra says? I honestly think it's because a part of you knows that there maybe some truth to what she says and it scares you. How do I know that? Because I've been there.

I know I'll probably anger some people with this, but I've gone through a struggle with some dark influences in recent years and I would like to see people not make the same mistake. I was involved with the Pagan/Wiccan community on and off for almost eight years, and while I believe in freedom of religion, I would definetly steer others off that path if I could.

Not so much becaue I think they're going to **** or that they're "wrong" so much as I think it can be a destructive path and I think that some people (myself included) do not function well in an enviroment with no laws except "harm none" which is fairly ambigous. You can't harm none because just by breathing you are harming and even killing microbacteria. And feel free to jump on me about this, but I think that alot of people become Pagan in a "screw you" sort of mentality because maybe for one reason or another they don't fit into the mainstream (like my younger self) or that they want approval for things that are not really that cool.

Now, I believe we all come from God and for that reason alone each person deserves respect and fair treatment. And I do try to respect another person's belief system. However, that doesn't mean I have to believe it's acceptable, and it seems like alot of people are dead set on making people tell them it's okay. But sometimes it isn't.

Well, for me it wasn't and thank God for my parents who finally confronted me about behavioural changes linked to Paganism and to Jesus Himself for not giving up on me, even appearing in dreams to get my attention. After this I can honestly not ever again scoff at the "Jesus loves you" saying because He has shown me Himself that I am important to Him and worthy of His attention and guidance.

God Bless,
Eeyore

**cebula_2005** · December 14th, 2006, 05:06 AM

Thank you OdetoEeyore and welcome to the board! [img]smile.gif[/img]

**zozey** · January 10th, 2007, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by OdeToEeyore:
Wow...I wasn't even going to join this board, but after reading this thread I felt like I had to speak out.

Stormchaser and ZoZey: You both seem like very angry people, and it makes me think you are probably not as happy as you claim to be. Why are you so threatened by what Tra says? I honestly think it's because a part of you knows that there maybe some truth to what she says and it scares you. How do I know that? Because I've been there.

I know I'll probably anger some people with this, but I've gone through a struggle with some dark influences in recent years and I would like to see people not make the same mistake. I was involved with the Pagan/Wiccan community on and off for almost eight years, and while I believe in freedom of religion, I would definetly steer others off that path if I could.

Not so much becaue I think they're going to **** or that they're "wrong" so much as I think it can be a destructive path and I think that some people (myself included) do not function well in an enviroment with no laws except "harm none" which is fairly ambigous. You can't harm none because just by breathing you are harming and even killing microbacteria. And feel free to jump on me about this, but I think that alot of people become Pagan in a "screw you" sort of mentality because maybe for one reason or another they don't fit into the mainstream (like my younger self) or that they want approval for things that are not really that cool.

Now, I believe we all come from God and for that reason alone each person deserves respect and fair treatment. And I do try to respect another person's belief system. However, that doesn't mean I have to believe it's acceptable, and it seems like alot of people are dead set on making people tell them it's okay. But sometimes it isn't.

Well, for me it wasn't and thank God for my parents who finally confronted me about behavioural changes linked to Paganism and to Jesus Himself for not giving up on me, even appearing in dreams to get my attention. After this I can honestly not ever again scoff at the "Jesus loves you" saying because He has shown me Himself that I am important to Him and worthy of His attention and guidance.

God Bless,
Eeyore

Stormchaser and ZoZey: You both seem like very angry people, and it makes me think you are probably not as happy as you claim to be. Why are you so threatened by what Tra says? I honestly think it's because a part of you knows that there maybe some truth to what she says and it scares you. How do I know that? Because I've been there.

why does everybody think that if you don't agree with the bible then that makes youan unhappy person? I believe in stating opinions, not sitting around waiting for someone to say them for me. I have strong beliefs and I do not see how that makes me "Unhappy". I say an opinion that you do not agree with and that makes me unhappy?

Why am I so "Threatened by what Tra says"? Why do I have to keep my mouth shut if I don't agree with the bible? Why am I unhappy because I get ****ed at Tra when she doesn't listen to what I have to say?
"Because I've been there" it's best you realize something now, just because that is how you felt, doesn't mean it's how I feel. I don't think that anything that Tra says is true, but that is just me.

I know I'll probably anger some people with this, but I've gone through a struggle with some dark influences in recent years and I would like to see people not make the same mistake. I was involved with the Pagan/Wiccan community on and off for almost eight years, and while I believe in freedom of religion, I would definetly steer others off that path if I could.

You bet you'll anger some people with it! You've just angered me. The Pagan/Wiccan community is a dark influence? I'm what I call a ChristaWiccan (I believe mostly in the Wiccan beliefs, but there are a few things in Christianity that I believe in), and why that **** does that make me a "dark influence"?

One last thing, if Tra can try to make me see things from the Christian point of view, why can't I try to make her see things from the non-christian point of view?

[ January 10, 2007 05:04 PM: Message edited by: zozey ]

**stormchaser** · January 11th, 2007, 01:53 AM

Originally posted by OdeToEeyore:

Stormchaser and ZoZey: You both seem like very angry people, and it makes me think you are probably not as happy as you claim to be. Why are you so threatened by what Tra says? I honestly think it's because a part of you knows that there maybe some truth to what she says and it scares you. How do I know that? Because I've been there.

Frightened? Hardly. I'd say Tra is frightened that her faith might be wrong - she's defending it viciously, without even conceding the obvious fact that the Bible is not written-on-stone truth. Let me quote this.

No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord.
- Deuteronomy 23:1 ESV

Tra, do you really believe that is fact? How about this?

Exodus 4:24-25 NASB

Now it came about at the lodging place on the way that the LORD met him and sought to put him to death. Then Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son?s foreskin and threw it at Moses? feet, and she said, ?You are indeed a bridegroom of blood to me.?

Huh? Besides, when did we claim to be happy? Did you even read the posts?

By the way, "Written on paper". Scha-wing, zozey!

I know I'll probably anger some people with this, but I've gone through a struggle with some dark influences in recent years and I would like to see people not make the same mistake. I was involved with the Pagan/Wiccan community on and off for almost eight years, and while I believe in freedom of religion, I would definetly steer others off that path if I could.

"Dark influences", eh? Yep, the hand of the devil is definitely in those wiccans. Always worshipping the devil and sacrificing virgins.

Not so much becaue I think they're going to **** or that they're "wrong" so much as I think it can be a destructive path and I think that some people (myself included) do not function well in an enviroment with no laws except "harm none" which is fairly ambigous.

How many laws except that(sometimes not even that) do Christians follow? Jesus once said that if you sin with your right arm, cut it off.

[img]graemlins/whatever.gif[/img]

You can't harm none because just by breathing you are harming and even killing microbacteria. And feel free to jump on me about this, but I think that alot of people become Pagan in a "screw you" sort of mentality because maybe for one reason or another they don't fit into the mainstream (like my younger self) or that they want approval for things that are not really that cool.

All true.

Now, I believe we all come from God and for that reason alone each person deserves respect and fair treatment. And I do try to respect another person's belief system. However, that doesn't mean I have to believe it's acceptable, and it seems like alot of people are dead set on making people tell them it's okay. But sometimes it isn't.

And why not? Because it's what you believe?

Well, for me it wasn't and thank God for my parents who finally confronted me about behavioural changes linked to Paganism and to Jesus Himself for not giving up on me, even appearing in dreams to get my attention.

No, really. You PARENTS confronted you about "behavioural changes" and made you love Jesus? [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img]

After this I can honestly not ever again scoff at the "Jesus loves you" saying because He has shown me Himself that I am important to Him and worthy of His attention and guidance.

God Bless,
Eeyore[/QB]

How did he show you? Wait, don't tell me.... I got it! HE DIDN'T, RIGHT? You read it in a 2000 year old book, right? That your parents referred you to, right? *DING*! Yes, three points!

Tra, you'll notice I'm not replying to you. This isn't because you won the argument. It's because since I last checked a few weeks ago, you're still repeating the same thing. You say we're not listening, but if you were listening you'd know we were. Besides, saying that you know it's true, even if you do, won't make me believe. It'll take more than the unsupported claim of some mass-produced 100$ dollar doll fan ranting on a forum populated only by non-Christians who make fun of your obvious insecurities and blind faith. Have a nice day.

[ January 10, 2007 09:55 PM: Message edited by: stormchaser ]

[ January 11, 2007 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Tra ]

EDIT: What did you edit, Tra?

[ January 11, 2007 06:12 PM: Message edited by: stormchaser ]

**cebula_2005** · January 11th, 2007, 06:53 PM

I am not frightened that my faith might not be true. People can believe something strongly and wish others to believe it too without being frightened that their faith might be wrong. I just want everyone to be as happy with Christ as I am because, contrary to what you all may think, if you really believe in Christ, you will be happier than if you don't.

**zozey** · January 11th, 2007, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by Tra:
I am not frightened that my faith might not be true. People can believe something strongly and wish others to believe it too without being frightened that their faith might be wrong. I just want everyone to be as happy with Christ as I am because, contrary to what you all may think, if you really believe in Christ, you will be happier than if you don't.

And have you never believed in Christ? Do you KNOW that you are happier than I, or Stormchaser are? No, no you don't.