Lew?

[Lew]

GS-

which would be another reason you would have wanted to call her to the stand. Jurors can sometimes accept lying if you come out and tell them why you lied (and assuming they are believe you are finally telling the truth). Again, in this case, I think she was dead to begin with. You come onto the news and you get the community to start looking for this missing boy who is in fact already dead...like I said, Cohen isn't an alchemist, he had a poor hand to deal with. Liz's mom wants to blame him, and I've been there, they always blame the lawyer because they simply cannot accept the fact that their child did something horrible.

[jumper69]

Liz Carroll was going to be convicted regardless of her guilt or innocence (she's not innocent mind you but I digress...)or regardless of the evidence.

I find it hard to believe that Liz Carroll could have EVER gotten a fair trial. This "trial" was a complete and total farce. A sham if you will. The verdict was going to be guilty before the first jury challenge.

There is NO WAY....NO WAY....that a child killer...especially one that killed a child so brutally, would be found not guilty....EVEN IF AMY BAKER CAME FORWARD AND SAID "I DID IT WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE OF LIZ CARROLL, LIZ IS IS NO WAY RESPONSIBLE AND I TAKE FULL AND COMPLETE RESPONSIBILITY FOR MARCUS FISELS DEATH"

Just as Hussein was going to be found guilty (the trial was a formality) so was Liz.

American justice at its finest.

[Lew]

Looks like your boy is considering taking the plea deal. Don't count your chickens before they're hatched, there's nothing to say he can't change his mind (plus remember, a plea deal has to be approved by the judge; if he's not happy with it, he can deny it and the trial proceeds).

And if I can take a 30-second digression- plea agreements are supposed to be confidential, at least during the negotiating phase. The fact that all of this is in the news is ridiculous. Not to go against the grain, of course, but part of me wished his lawyer could do something with this. No, not because I feel pity for the bastard, but because I have issues with the way the media covers legal matters. That is, until I saw her on the TV talking about the terms of the plea deal. I have enormous issues with all of that, but so be it.

Back to Big Dave.....there are advantages in letting a co-defendant go first and you can see why. If he was going to try the case, they get a second shot at Amy Baker (plus remember Amy has to be consistent with what she testifies to in both trials). If he goes forward with the settlement, he knows what he needs to do- get up there and show contrition.

But this idea that he's going to be out in 16 years....I wouldn't count on it. He needs to go into this realize he may spend the rest of his life in prison (and certainly most of it). But he has a chance to argue his case, something Liz won't have.

And again props to Amy Baker for committing a crime, getting over, and then watching two others spend the rest of their lives in prison.

[cincygreg]

He took the deal and admitted guilt.

Last Updated: 8:51 am | Tuesday, February 27, 2007
Carroll pleads guilty
Foster father may still spend life in jail after plea deal
BATAVIA - David Carroll Jr. pleaded guilty to murder and gross abuse of a corpse in Clermont County Common Pleas Court. Judge Jerry R. McBride is expected to sentence Carroll to prison. Afterward, Carroll will be sent to the Correctional Reception Center in Orient, south of Columbus, for evaluation. Based on that, he would be transferred to a state prison deemed the best fit for him.

Carroll might spend the rest of his life in prison now that he has accepted a plea deal in the death of his foster son, Marcus Fiesel.

Carroll also pleaded guilty to gross abuse of a corpse ? for burning the body of the 3-year-old boy in Brown County in an effort to cover up his death in August.

?He?s relieved,? Adams said Monday of Carroll. ?It was very, very difficult to go through the process of making the decision.?

One reason he decided to make a deal with prosecutors was the long prison term imposed on his wife, Liz Carroll, who last week was found guilty by a jury of murder and six other charges in connection with Marcus? death.

Adams and David Carroll spent hours over the weekend talking about what his chances might be if his case went to trial, she said. The decision took awhile because she wanted him to make up his own mind on the deal, she said.

Carroll didn?t want his 8-year-old biological son to have to testify in the murder trial, which was scheduled to begin March 19, Adams said. ?That?s Dave?s main reason,? she said. ?He said, ?If I put my son through that, it?s like making him a victim ? and I can?t do that.? ?

If called to the witness stand, prosecutors said, the boy would have testified that his dad repeatedly taped the Marcus? hands behind his back ? and also subjected his other four children to domestic violence.

?It?s a good outcome because it?s a sure thing,? Clermont County Prosecutor Don White said of the plea deal. ?Any time you go to trial, you never know what?s going to happen.?

Carroll would have to serve at least 16 years in prison before becoming eligible for parole on a life sentence for murder and on a consecutive one-year sentence for abusing a corpse, White said.

?I don?t believe he?ll get it,? White said of parole. ?I don?t know what he thinks.?

Liz Carroll, 30, won?t be eligible for parole for 54 years under the sentence imposed last week by Judge Robert P. Ringland.

She faced the same charges as her husband, except for gross abuse of a corpse.

?He deserves to spend as much time as she does (in prison) ? though from the very beginning it?s always been my belief she was the ringleader,? White said of the Carrolls.

The Carrolls didn?t intend for Marcus to die, prosecutors have said, because the couple was paid about $1,000 a month to care for him.

Adams told White on Monday that Carroll would admit to the murder of Marcus and the burning of the body if all the other charges against the Union Township man were dropped in Clermont and Hamilton counties.

The other Clermont County charges are involuntary manslaughter, felonious assault, kidnapping and three counts of endangering a child.

Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters agreed Monday to drop charges of making false alarms and inducing panic, White said.

After meeting in the judge?s chambers with McBride, White and Assistant Prosecutor Daniel ?Woody? Breyer, Adams spoke to Carroll?s mother, Debbie Hounshell, on the sidewalk outside the Courthouse.

?He feels like he?s betraying Liz,? Hounshell said of her son taking the plea deal.

He spoke to her from the Clermont County Jail, where he is being held in lieu of $10.1 million bail.

David Carroll had turned down a similar deal soon after being charged in September.

?I?m sure Liz?s sentencing had something to do with (taking the deal now), how much is hard to determine because the trials would have been very different,? Adams said.

?Liz?s grand jury (testimony in Hamilton County) is what the jurors say sunk her,? Adams said. ?He didn?t make any statement to the grand jury, so it would have been a very different trial.?

During her Aug. 28 grand jury testimony, Liz Carroll admitted Marcus was dead and his body had been burned by her husband.

The two were arrested after they claimed Marcus wandered off in an Anderson Township Park on Aug. 15 after Liz Carroll collapsed, a hoax that prompted about 2,000 people to search for the boy.

Prosecutors have said Marcus died after being bound in a blanket with tape and left in a closet of the couple?s Union Township home while they attended a family reunion in Grant County, Ky., the weekend of Aug. 4.

The primary witness in the trial against Liz Carroll was Amy Baker, 25, the former live-in girlfriend of the couple. She said Liz Carroll didn?t want relatives to see bruising on the neck of Marcus that resulted from David Carroll leaving the child in a car seat overnight.

The Carrolls had said in jailhouse interviews with The Enquirer that Baker killed Marcus before they left for the family reunion.

Baker bound Marcus to keep the developmentally delayed boy out of the way while she had sex with David Carroll, the foster dad claimed.

One factor that might be in Carroll?s favor when he becomes eligible for parole is that he apparently was the only one who had second thoughts about leaving Marcus bound in the closet.

Baker testified in Liz Carroll?s murder trial that David Carroll made them rush back from Kentucky early Aug. 6 because he had a bad feeling about Marcus.

But the boy was dead by the time they got home, Baker said.

[Lew]

Go read Cohen's op-ed piece in the Enquirer. I'd try to link it here, but then I'd get some nasty response from Gae about my UBB problems. And you know, I may have UBB problems, but they're personal and Gae has no right to come on this board and post about them (I mean, thanks Gae for making my medical records public; why don't you just come out and tell everyone about my zipper accident?)

I told you all that those jurors were going to cause problems. I'm not saying he's going to prevail on his motion, but I believe the juror's comments (if true; you can't believe it just because a media outlet reports it) certainly do make for some issues to be scrutinized. Especially about the comment where she knew in her heart, before-hand, that Liz was guilty.

Jumper hit it right on the head- this trial was over before it ever began. And I'm not saying Liz is not guilty, I'm saying there are rules to be followed, and if they're not followed, there must be some type of remedy.

And Cohen is absolutely right about not pounding on Amy Baker. Again, the media and Hollywood make it sound like all a defense counsel does is get up and scream "Now isn't it true" and that there's always going to be this Matlock moment when the witness breaks down and admits their lies only after brutal cross-examination. When the fact is, Amy did admit she was a liar from the get-go, how exactly are you going to get a "GOTCHA!" out of that?

Jurors do not like lawyers, and they empathize with witnesses. A good lawyer can elicit the points he/she needs to get out of witness without a dog and pony show.