Anyone see Clinton on Letterman / Wed night?

**larsguy** · September 13th, 2002, 05:44 PM

JBT--

Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed or is it you who was Trollboy at Unk's saloon? It's not my desire to impose my views on anyone. It is my desire to express my views. Maybe I should have said "IMO". IMO, Clinton is a weasel-wording slickster.

**pugsly** · September 14th, 2002, 04:40 AM

Jeeez Lars, I thought you said I was the trollboy! Now you're giving the title to someone else too?? That's just not "politically correct"! Speaking of politics, I thought you said you didn't want to discuss that subject on this forum. Well, as long as you decided it's okay to "express our views" I must say I agree with you. That Clinton is a smarmy weasel-wording slickster! JBT definitely got up on the wrong side of the bed, the liberal side! That's why he prefers glibness to character. George Bush has shown more character and dignity in less than 2 years than Clinton did during his entire presidency.

**Jack Booted Thug** · September 14th, 2002, 04:51 AM

Lars,

Sorry, I am not trollboy. It wasn't me who admitting to changes handles to post stuff just to stir things up.

BTW, my memory is sometimes faulty. Who did admit that anyway, Lars?

**larsguy** · September 14th, 2002, 05:00 AM

Ya got me JBT, *I* am Trollboy. BWAHAHAAA.

**Jack Booted Thug** · September 14th, 2002, 05:11 AM

And by the way, getting back to the point of Johnny's post. In my opinion, Clinton would have kicked Bush Jr.'s ass in an election. You would still not know what a chad was, let alone care if it was hanging or not.

Pammy,

To be perfectly honest, I am sick and tired of the public school vs. Mommy home schooling discussion. I am perfectly happy with the public education system that my children have gone through and the locally elected schoool boards that administer our school system. Personally, I think the home schooling crowd is doing their children a diservice when it comes to social skill development. But that is just my opinion.

I am willing to admit that there probably many places where the public school system is sub-standard. It is MY opinion that the fault for that lies with the people that elect their school boards and those who are reluctant to pay the necessary cost for educating our children through school taxes. This lack of responsibilty by the citizens of these areas is what is driving federal regulation of schools and performance based evaluations. If you don't want that, then run for a seat on your school board. That is where you can have a direct influence on the creeping NEA menace.

Where I live, our children meet or exceed any nationalized standard that you would care to impose. Guess what? We pay a high property tax rate for schools. We also have very easy access to our school board members, who for the most part are parents with kids in the system and pay those very same taxes.

My point with all of this is, that public schooling isn't in and of its self bad. If it is bad, it is solely the fault of the citizens who ultimately put incompetent people in charge of the system or who aren't willing to pay the cost necessary.

I don't know where you live, but if it is in a large urban area with crappy schools, why don't you move? Smaller more rural areas seem to handle this issue better, again, JMO.

**Morbius** · September 14th, 2002, 06:25 AM

Gee! And here I thought this was a complicated issue. How bout if we in California simply move some quarter million non-english speaking kids to rural Corn Country. Welcome arms there I betcha! And the parents, after they find a job. Betcha they'll show up at every PTA meeting. I mean wow that rural culture will just begin their transformation. Substitute Detroit for Cali if you like.

Your response to Pammy was right on the mark both in problem and remedy. Reality gets in the way. Having to resort to standardized tests is a sad condemnation of PU but having read those tests I'm at least glad the kids will know THAT much!

**Jack Booted Thug** · September 14th, 2002, 07:17 AM

Morbius,

Sorry to tell you but you have already shipped them here. You seem to forget about the meat packing plants. A lovely industry that imports cheap labor in order to be able to get you bacon on the table.

And you are right, that kind of influx puts a strain on the schools and also the "culture" of the area in general. We now have english as a second language instructors. Quite controversial here. But you might not be aware of this fact. Corn country has always had a seasonal Mexican population, migrant labor don't you know. I went to school with Mexican kids for the second semester throughout my high school days, which were a long, long time ago. At least to me. Eventually those families stayed year round.

In fact I went to a fine Corn Country tradition tonight. Its called a High School football game (this is public education oriented). There are several Mexican kids on the team and they do quite well. Their parents attend the games and sit in the stands with all the white folk *GASP*. Not all the parents speak english well, but for those that don't their kids interpret. I have seen the same parents at elementary schools and the middle school for musicals, concerts, plays and yes, even parent/teacher conferences.

Are they fully assimilated? Probably not. But the key is, that people talk about assimilation, not segregation. That is a difference I think. We will always be limited in the number of people in Corn COuntry just because of economic reality. You can only support so much. But people are trying (and paying those goddam property taxes) in this instance. I mean after all. The Swedes were assimilated (though I think there is some debate about that yet) when they came to corn country 150 years ago.

If the area was able to swallow those stubborn SOB's maybe we will do okay with our newest immigrants. Not saying everything will be a bed of roses but when you deal with people on a smaller scale and closer setting I think that you have a better chance.

Of course you must keep in mind that assimilation is a two way street. The newcomers change their ways but the established groups give too. But the most important thing to me is that you not exclude the children of the "newcomer" group. Because if you don't try to assimilate the children, then nothing positive can happen.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 14, 2002 04:19 AM: Message edited by: Jack Booted Thug ]</font>

**Pammy** · September 14th, 2002, 11:51 AM

JBT, you're not even on the same page. This has nothing to do with a 'home-schooling' debate. Helen sends her kids to school. She is also very involved in the system. She understands the goal being forced on teachers is to turn out kids who can pass a test. That's not education, JBT. It's momentary memorization.

**Uncle Deedah** · September 14th, 2002, 12:34 PM

Teaching kids enough so that they can pass a standardized test is, in fact, education. Take kids who could not pass the test, and teach them what they need to know in order to pass the test and you have indeed educated them. Long overdue IMHO.