I was going through my deck and saw Bosh... 8 mana seems kind of underwhelming for him now. I nominate him for the axe. So Bosh and Firestorm so far.
Okay, fair enough. That's a lot of valid points. All is Dust is strongly up for inclusion. Ulamog is up for consideration.
*mooooooooo*
I was going through my deck and saw Bosh... 8 mana seems kind of underwhelming for him now. I nominate him for the axe. So Bosh and Firestorm so far.
-JRR
Bosh wins games. He's always won games. He doesn't just fling himself. I can't count the times I've flung him to win. Or DSC. He's not a situational thing like Firestorm.
Also, I'm working on making a final list of all cards for consideration. It would've been here sooner except for the no power thing. Should be up soon. Then we can whittle the cards that suck most off it and go from there.
*mooooooooo*
Here is the current list of potentials. There's a lot of easy stuff to trim on here. There's things that are just obviously not powerful enough to make the deck. I'm not going to make a trims now as I'm working on borrowed internet. Anything you think shouldn't be on the list, post with your reasons. Once we're all agreed, we'll remove it. If I missed something let me know and I'll add it. I'm trusting that Jason picked up all the cards worth considering on the sets he researched as I'm too lazy to look myself
Name
Behemoth Sledge
Cauldron of Souls
Citanul Flute
Crucible of Worlds
Darksteel Ingot
Duplicant
Enigma Sphinx**
Everflowing Chalice**
Expedition Map**
Explorer's Scope**
Grinning Totem
Ivory Tower
Journeyer's Kite
Lotus Bloom
Mangara's Tome
Oblivion Stone
Panoptic Mirror
Planar Portal
Platinum Angel
Relic of Progenitus
Sphinx-Bone Wand
All is Dust
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre**
Bojuka Bog**
Emeria, the Sky Ruin**
Evolving Wilds
Minamo, School at Water's Edge
Okina, Temple of Grandfathers
Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
Tectonic Edge**
Bloodchief Ascension**
Contract from Below
Decree of Pain
Demonic Consultation
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Faceless Butcher
Imperial Seal
Mind Twist
Night Dealings
Rend Flesh
Sorin Markov**
Sudden Spoiling
Suffer the Past
Tainted Pact
Vampiric Tutor
Yawgmoth's Bargain
Yawgmoth's Will
Braingeyser
Compulsion
Dizzy Spell
Flash
Gifts Ungiven
Greater Morphling
Intuition
Johnny, Combo Player
Mystical Tutor
Recurring Insight
Rite of Replication**
Sphinx of Magosi
Thada Adel, Acquisitor**
Time Walk
Tinker
Trinket Mage
Anathemancer**
Bloodbraid Elf**
Captain Sissy
Dauntless Escort**
Dimir Infiltrator
Empyrial Archangel**
Enlisted Wurm
Fires of Yavimaya
Jenara, Asura of War**
Lord of Extinction
Lorescale Coatl**
Loxodon Hierarch
Madrush Cyclops**
Maelstrom Nexus**
Maelstrom Pulse
Mystic Snake
Novablast Wurm**
Prince of Thralls**
Qasali Pridemage
Rafiq of the Many**
Rhox War Monk
Sarkhan Vol**
Sen Triplets**
Stoic Angel
Thraximundar**
Trygon Predator
Wrexial, the Risen Deep
Cold-Eyed Selkie
Assult/Battery
Order/Chaos
Spite/Malice
Who/What/When/Where/Why
Acidic Slime
Civic Wayfinder
Deranged Hermit
Far Wanderings
Farseek
Forgotten Ancient
Harrow
Hibernation's End
Hystrodon
Journey of Discovery
Krosan Grip
Land Aid 04
Loaming Shaman
Master of the Wild Hunt**
Mold Shambler
Nature's Spiral**
Oath of Druids
Rampaging Baloths**
Rampant Growth
Realms Uncharted
Reap and Sow
Scute Mob**
Search for Tomorrow
Skyshroud Elf
Survival of the Fittest
Tajuru Preserver
Terastodon**
Utopia Tree
Werebear
Wild Nacatl
Worldly Tutor
Ancient Hydra
Chain Reaction**
Dragonmaster Outcast**
Fledgling Dragon
Goblin Bombardment
Desolation Giant
Hissing Iguanar
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs**
Knollspine Dragon
Starstorm
Surreal Memoir
Wild Research
Baneslayer Angel
Chastise
Day of Judgement
Deathless Angel
Elspeth, Knight-Errant**
Enlightened Tutor
Exile
Gift of Estates
Invincible Hymn**
Knight of the White Orchid**
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Luminarch Ascension**
Magus of the Disc
Mangara of Corondor
Marshal's Anthem**
Ranger of Eos**
Seal of Cleansing
Spectral Lynx
Stoneforge Mystic**
Temple Acolyte
Wall of Omens
Vengeful Dreams
*mooooooooo*
Easy trims:
Faceless Butcher ? good, but no longer good enough. Doesn?t feel epic enough for the Essentials.
Greater Morphling ? Let?s keep the Un cards out.
Sorin Markov ? Pretty decent minus abilities. However, triple black. The plus ability is just okay. Too expensive overall.
Bloodbraid Elf ? Cascade seems like it could be useful. However the creature attached to the cascade is unimpressive.
Dimir Infiltrator ? The creature is still weak. The transmute is okay, but not as necessary with all the new tutors coming into the deck.
Empyrial Archangel ? Decent ability, nice body, but there?s just a lot better large creatures way higher up the list than her.
Enlisted Wurm ? Same problem as the Bloodbraid Elf
Sarkhan Vol ? Seems decent. The abilities are solid. Super aggressive. I don?t know that the Essentials is the best use of this guy. Rather have a better planeswalker if another is going in.
Stoic Angel ? Highly situational. Better in the wish board.
Assault / Battery ? Still not good enough
Who / What / When / Where / Why ? Same as the Greater Morphling
Acidic Slime ? I like the 182 ability. However, I?d rather pay one more mana for the ability to off planewalkers (Mold Shambler). The deathtouch is great and all, but offing a planeswalker is better. I doubt there?s room for both.
Civic Wayfinder ? We want the land fixing to be two man or absolutely amazing. This is neither.
Deranged Hermit ? Just not up to snuff anymore.
Far Wanderings ? While this can be amazing the deck doesn?t need more land search. Without need that means it has to be Realms Uncharted to be considered.
Farseek ? If I the deck needed more fix, this would be one of the first stops. I think it?ll be fine without this considering the new fetches and the moxes and lotus coming in.
Harrow ? See above
Journey of Discovery ? Ditto
Land Aid 04 ? Above and the Un thing
Rampant Growth ? Land discussion above
Search for Tomorrow ? Same again
Skyshroud Elf ? I love this guy. I think he?s amazing. Especially as I?m rather found of the arting I did on mine. However, I just don?t think he?s strong enough.
Utopia Tree ? It was fine in the day. I?d rather have Noble Hierarch if we were to add another mana critter
Werebear ? Same
Wild Nacatl ? Not strong enough. Sure it?s a 3/3, but it?s a vanilla 3/3.
Hissing Iguanar ? I like him, but doesn?t seem amazing enough. Maybe in the Budget Essentials
Chastise ? 4 mana seems a bit much. The deck has a lot of removal. If we?re adding one back in, I?d rather have Exile.
Invincible Hymn ? Let?s just rule it out. Great, you gain stupid amounts of life. No please.
Spectral Lynx ? This little guys is just too little for the big leagues
Temple Acolyte - Same
*mooooooooo*
Cards I think should be out of the running...
Everflowing Chalice: This does little early on, doesn't fix you mana, and late game gives you more mana that you don't really need. Dreamstone Hedron is better.
Ivory Tower: I know this deck can sit with a clutch full of cards some times, but this is not longer one of the best life gain cards available... no thianks.
Sphinx-Bone Wand: I don't know what to think about this card... it seems cool, but 7 mana is a lot for something that seems cool. I'm going to go ahead and say nah.
Bloodchief Ascension: I've been playing this in my 5-color and can't say its really been awesome. Also, its a cruddy top deck when you NEED to win.
Empyrial Archangel: Going to have to disagree about nix this card. She has shroud and says "you have to get through me first" when she is on the board. I love this card.
Tajuru Preserver: Wish board material at best. How often do you sac stuff to opponents in multiplayer, once? Maybe twice per game?
Desolation Giant: Best kept in the wish board. I am very rarely happy to draw him.
Ranger of Eos: Without things like Wild Ncatl, Loam Lion, Kird Ape, Student of Warfare, this guy is really meh. Great in constructed weenie agro decks. Kind of poor here.
-JRR
Next Cuts:
Citanul Flute – I don’t think it needs to go back in. I think the reasons we took it out still fully apply. Also, there are a lot better cards on the list.
Duplicant – I’d rather he became an exact copy of the creature. I think it would be fitting to print a card that did just that. Duplicant as it is, just isn’t strong enough. Sure, I can make him into a 9/9 or whatever and take out a creature, but all I’m really doing is drawing a removal spell out of my opponent’s hand. There’s better ways to do that I’m sure.
Enigma Sphinx – There’s just better beef on the list.
Journeyer’s Kite – Too expensive for lands in hand.
Planar Portal – I’m still over it.
Platinum Angel – I think it’s best staying in the wish board.
Relic of Progenitus – There’s a lot of similar variations of graveyard removal. Scrabbling claws isn’t good enough. Don’t think it ever has been. I’d rather have really amazing graveyard removal like Suffer the Past. Even Loaming Shaman would be better.
Sphinx-Bone Wand - I like this card. I think it has potential. However, I think you’re just going to draw some removal. You might get a counter or two. I don’t think it will ever be as strong as I’d like it to be. Best not to waste the slot.
Demonic Consultation – Probably not going to work well in a highlander deck.
Mind Twist – Wish board.
Yawgmoth’s Bargain – I don’t have a good reason, I’m just not feeling it. I don’t want to skip the draw step? There’s plenty of card drawing? Rather have a creature?
Braingeyser – I want instant card drawing these days. Stroke is already in. I’d rather try Recurring Insight as a new sorcery speed card draw.
Dizzy Spell – Ability is negligible. Transmute, well, a ton of new tutors coming in means little need for sorcery speed transmute.
Johnny, Combo Player – Missed it on the last cull.
Fires of Yavimaya – For one more mana I can have a ? body. Sure, I don’t have the cool sac ability, but that’s okay I guess.
Jenara, Asura of War – I like this lady. This is a fine card in that it’s a 3/3 flier for 3. Also, she can get bigger. That’s nice. However, I think we can do better.
Lord of Extinction – Sure it’s all card, but so what? Then it’s just a big guy. Big guy, no trample, who cares? At least Mortivore can regenerate. Vulturous Zombie flies. Lord of Extinction is just big, potentially. Pass.
Lorescale Coatl – He’ll get bigger, but he has no dodge. So, he only has the potential to be large. Not good enough.
Rhox War Monk – There is much better left on the list and in the deck.
Cold-eyed Selkie – Too fragile. Left behind for good reason.
Spite / Malice – Either side is weak on its own. Weaker than all the other stuff in the deck. However, a counter and a creature removal spell in one card is strong. Especially with all the super creatures expected to be running around. I think the removal in the deck can handle it. Another counter or two may be in order, but surely we can find better?
Master of the Wild Hunt – Tricksy and neat, but not neat enough. Verdant Force would give us a bigger body and a critter every turn. Master has a creature removal ability that only works if he sticks around for a bit.
Nature’s Spiral – Most of the goods we want to return are non-permanent.
Reap and Sow – There’s other ways to take out a land and this is too expensive for search.
Scute Mob – I like the idea, but I think it will be a letdown in practice.
Ancient Hydra – We can do better these days.
Chain Reaction – Hmm…. Seems like it could work. At best it’s just another wrath. I’d rather add a sure thing.
Gift of Estates – Land search. Not super exciting. Works.
Knight of the White Orchid – Creature is weak. Just okay.
Mangara of Corondor – no
Ranger of Eos – For standard yes. What will we fetch? A birds? Maybe a Dragonman if he makes the cut? Not good enough.
Seal of Cleansing – Let’s do this with a creature.
What's left:
Name
Behemoth Sledge
Cauldron of Souls
Crucible of Worlds
Darksteel Ingot
Everflowing Chalice**
Expedition Map**
Explorer's Scope**
Grinning Totem
Ivory Tower
Lotus Bloom
Mangara's Tome
Oblivion Stone
Panoptic Mirror
All is Dust
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre**
Bojuka Bog**
Emeria, the Sky Ruin**
Evolving Wilds
Minamo, School at Water's Edge
Okina, Temple of Grandfathers
Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
Tectonic Edge**
Bloodchief Ascension**
Contract from Below
Decree of Pain
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Imperial Seal
Night Dealings
Rend Flesh
Sudden Spoiling
Suffer the Past
Tainted Pact
Vampiric Tutor
Yawgmoth's Will
Compulsion
Flash
Gifts Ungiven
Intuition
Mystical Tutor
Recurring Insight
Rite of Replication**
Sphinx of Magosi
Thada Adel, Acquisitor**
Time Walk
Tinker
Trinket Mage
Anathemancer**
Captain Sissy
Dauntless Escort**
Loxodon Hierarch
Madrush Cyclops**
Maelstrom Nexus**
Maelstrom Pulse
Mystic Snake
Novablast Wurm**
Prince of Thralls**
Qasali Pridemage
Rafiq of the Many**
Sen Triplets**
Thraximundar**
Trygon Predator
Wrexial, the Risen Deep
Order/Chaos
Forgotten Ancient
Hibernation's End
Hystrodon
Krosan Grip
Loaming Shaman
Mold Shambler
Oath of Druids
Rampaging Baloths
Realms Uncharted
Survival of the Fittest
Tajuru Preserver
Terastodon
Worldly Tutor
Dragonmaster Outcast**
Fledgling Dragon
Goblin Bombardment
Desolation Giant
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs**
Knollspine Dragon
Starstorm
Surreal Memoir
Wild Research
Baneslayer Angel
Day of Judgement
Deathless Angel
Elspeth, Knight-Errant**
Enlightened Tutor
Exile
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Luminarch Ascension**
Magus of the Disc
Marshal's Anthem**
Stoneforge Mystic**
Wall of Omens
Vengeful Dreams
*mooooooooo*
Everflowing Chalice, Ivory Tower: fair enough.Originally Posted by jrr
Sphinx-Bone Wand: added in last post.
Bloodchief: taking your word.
Empyrial Archangel: Missed the shroud. Added back. Still not totally sold.
Tajuru Preserver: Might be worth it with Eldrazi around.
Desolation Giant: It's still a wrath. A wrath on a stick, how is that not happy times?
Ranger of Eos: Added last post.
New list:
Name
Behemoth Sledge
Black Lotus
Cauldron of Souls
Crucible of Worlds
Darksteel Ingot
Expedition Map
Explorer's Scope
Grinning Totem
Lotus Bloom
Mangara's Tome
Mox Emerald
Mox Jet
Mox Pearl
Mox Ruby
Mox Saphire
Oblivion Stone
Panoptic Mirror
All is Dust
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Bojuka Bog
Emeria, the Sky Ruin
Evolving Wilds
Minamo, School at Water's Edge
Okina, Temple of Grandfathers
Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
Tectonic Edge
Contract from Below
Decree of Pain
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Imperial Seal
Night Dealings
Rend Flesh
Sudden Spoiling
Suffer the Past
Tainted Pact
Vampiric Tutor
Yawgmoth's Will
Compulsion
Flash
Gifts Ungiven
Intuition
Mystical Tutor
Recurring Insight
Rite of Replication
Sphinx of Magosi
Thada Adel, Acquisitor
Time Walk
Tinker
Trinket Mage
Anathemancer
Captain Sissy
Dauntless Escort
Empyrial Archangel
Loxodon Hierarch
Madrush Cyclops
Maelstrom Nexus
Maelstrom Pulse
Mystic Snake
Novablast Wurm
Prince of Thralls
Qasali Pridemage
Rafiq of the Many
Sen Triplets
Thraximundar
Trygon Predator
Wrexial, the Risen Deep
Order/Chaos
Forgotten Ancient
Hibernation's End
Hystrodon
Krosan Grip
Loaming Shaman
Mold Shambler
Oath of Druids
Rampaging Baloths
Realms Uncharted
Survival of the Fittest
Tajuru Preserver
Terastodon
Worldly Tutor
Dragonmaster Outcast
Fledgling Dragon
Goblin Bombardment
Desolation Giant
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
Knollspine Dragon
Starstorm
Surreal Memoir
Wild Research
Baneslayer Angel
Day of Judgement
Deathless Angel
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Enlightened Tutor
Exile
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Luminarch Ascension
Magus of the Disc
Marshal's Anthem
Stoneforge Mystic
Wall of Omens
Vengeful Dreams
*mooooooooo*
I find the cascade from bloodbrade and enlisted is generally pretty awesome, especially if you're doing some stacking tricks, even with a top it can be pretty cool.
As far as desolation giant goes, I took him out a long time ago. Living death with a d-giant in the yard sucks a lot.
I've had it with monkey fightin snakes on this monday to friday plane!
After 4+ hours in a car, Jason and I trimmed the list more:
Name
Behemoth Sledge (going in for Loxodon Warhammer) [url=http://findmagiccards.com/Cards/AR/Behemoth_Sledge.html - Behemoth Sledge[/url]
Black Lotus
Crucible of Worlds
Expedition Map
Lotus Bloom
Mox Emerald
Mox Jet
Mox Pearl
Mox Ruby
Mox Saphire
Oblivion Stone
Panoptic Mirror
All is Dust
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Bojuka Bog
Emeria, the Sky Ruin
Evolving Wilds
Minamo, School at Water's Edge
Okina, Temple of Grandfathers
Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
Tectonic Edge
Contract from Below
Decree of Pain
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Sudden Spoiling
Suffer the Past
Vampiric Tutor
Yawgmoth's Will
Compulsion
Draining Whelk
Gifts Ungiven
Intuition
Mystical Tutor
Recurring Insight
Rite of Replication
Sphinx of Magosi
Thada Adel, Acquisitor
Time Walk
Tinker
Trinket Mage
Anathemancer
Captain Sissy
Dauntless Escort
Empyrial Archangel
Maelstrom Nexus
Maelstrom Pulse
Mystic Snake
Novablast Wurm
Prince of Thralls
Qasali Pridemage
Rafiq of the Many
Sen Triplets
Thraximundar
Trygon Predator
Wrexial, the Risen Deep
Hibernation's End
Life from the Loam
Realms Uncharted
Survival of the Fittest
Terastodon
Goblin Bombardment
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
Wild Research
Deathless Angel
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Enlightened Tutor
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Luminarch Ascension
Magus of the Disc
Marshal's Anthem
Stoneforge Mystic
Wall of Omens
Vengeful Dreams
Around 39 cards to add to the deck. List still needs to be trimmed by about 30 cards. Next big step is to compare the list to the cards in the deck for obvious replacements.
*mooooooooo*
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