I'm a believer!

[The Genius]

I think Colon has finally made it. He was awesome tonight, and showed an enthusiasm for the game that I haven't seen before.
He projects to 21-9, 2.22 e.r.a., which could be better if he gets some more run support.
I no longer advocate trading him. Let's sign him to an extension instead. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[the teacher]

I agree 100%. Bart is pitching like a CY winner. Who's better in the AL right now? Lowe? If we don't sign him, the Yanks surely will and that's just not acceptable. Their pitching is a major weakness: Mussina is 33, Wells is 39, Clemens will be 40 in August; Hernandez claims he's 36. This really ought to give GS cause for concern.

[Mr. October]

With Shapiro on record saying the Indians aren't capable of paying anybody more than $8 mil per year Bart would be a fool to not test his FA value. I guarantee you there are plenty of teams willing to pay him a lot more than what the Indians would offer. He's going to walk so the only solid move is to trade him.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ June 01, 2002 07:12 PM: Message edited by: Mr. October ]</font>

[Alex]

I hadn't heard about this 8 million max rule.

Probably based on that "formula" that Hart used when he was trying to resign Manny that no team has won a championship since 1988 when any one player made more then 12% of the total budget. (it may have been as high but no higher than 13.8%)

12% of 70 million is 8.4 million. 13.8% of 70 million is 9.8 million.

I think Shapiro should focus on keeping attendance up rather then settling for mediocrity.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ June 02, 2002 04:26 AM: Message edited by: Alex ]</font>

[the teacher]

Mr. October,

Where did Shapiro make that statement? I hadn't heard it either.

[Mr. October]

I'll paraphrase the quote, "this team won't be one of the teams that can afford to pay upwards of $8 million for the services of any one player." It was in response to a question about the future payroll of the Indians. It was Shapiro getting the fans prepared for what would be coming in light of the loss of Gonzo, Robbie and Kenny Lofton. It was in an extensive interview in the Plain Dealer prior to the start of spring training. It's the main reason I've advocated trading Thome and Colon and been critical of personnel moves like Wohlers, Cordero et.al. Lord knows Tribe fans can live through a couple of crappy years but let's expedite the process.

[Alex]

I disagree about the fans living through a couple of crappy years....to fall that fast and that hard when it is not necessary should not ever be acceptable.

We make the playoffs this year, perhaps surprise in the playoffs, then next year we deal with the possible loss of Thome or Colon.

Unless someone makes an offer that we just can't refuse...but I think Shapiro may have lost some respect with the Ricky G signing....

Ricky is slated to make 4.5 million next year and 5.5 million the year after...wow. (he only made 2 plus million this year to help out the tribe with their budget restrictions)

[Mr. October]

You need to be more realistic Alex. Thome and Colon are gone. I'd not be advocating any trades if Gonzo was hitting behind Thome, if Alomar was batting 2nd and Lofton was leading off. They'd be 10 games in front of everybody else in the Central with a legitimate chance to win the fall classic. They had an opportunity to make a run this year but chose not to. Getting to the playoffs by winning a weak division this year does nothing to strengthen the Indians for the future.

[the teacher]

Mr. October,

Have you read any statistics at all this season? Alomar is hitting .260 something, Gonzo has been hurt almost all year (in keeping with his reputation) and Lofton, though he got off to a good start, has been falling like a rock and is injured now. If we had these 3 guys our record would probably be worse than it is now.

[Mr. October]

What would their stats be if they stayed in Cleveland? Would Juan have been hurt? Who knows? It's not the point. The point is with those players AND decent pitching (that would be a lot better with more firepower) this team had a real chance this year. Now they don't. I don't care they're not here. But don't tell me the team should keep Thome and Colon and make a run when the likelihood is they'd fall on their face in the playoffs and both will be gone in FA. And real crappy baseball would be back for the next decade. I believe shrewd dealing could get this team back in contention in 2 or 3 years.