416-8A

[acre]

Greetings all!

I recently completed some new cabinets for my 416-8A drivers and 811B configuration with the help of Dave Fitts and others. They are being used in my home theatre along with a Servo 15 Paradigm sub. I'm using a Sony 5.1/DTS amp with its own LFE effects channel. The sound of these two new cabinets is very smooth but still lacking that typical Altec punch that was there in 1972 when I bought the kits. I find that to get that punch in home theatre, I have to use the bass boost (loudness control) and then turn the sub down to a lower level. There is a 100% better sound when I do this. Are these drivers getting weaker or on the way out? Should I look at Eminence replacements? Thanks in advance.......Lee

[acre]

Good Point. I did spend considerable time with this issue. I consulted the Paradigm website and they showed a good method for sub placement and phasing. The Servo 15 comes with a variable phase adjustment processor so that I can play with the phase until the sound seems blended. I did this with various soundtracks, as well as, a tone generator. Thanks for your thoughts? Any other ideas.......Lee

[bfish]

Before you go to a lot of trouble, try disabling your sub, AT THE SONY's control panel, and see if you regain the Altec's punch using '2-CH' mode, or 'AFS' with a stereo source, assuming your Altecs are front-channel connected. I nearly mothballed my McIntosh ML-1Cs from a similar situation, only to learn the Sony (STR-DE675) was causing it! Seems that if the Sony is configured with a sub, it (proportionally?) reduces the LF output to the mains. You can juggle this effect out somewhat, via setup configs and EQ on the Sony, so the mains sound better in surround modes, but not completely. The effect becomes more noticeable the greater the distance between mains and subs. Although HT "surround" is really cool with movies, to my old "stereo-conditioned" ears, it stinks with most music. Keep in mind, this is from a guy that thinks "rap" means 'participating in an intense conversation'!

"Till the Wheels Fall Off and Burn!"

[Altec19]

Is it possible the 416's and the sub are out of phase with each other and are causing noticeable bass cancellation? There are a number of factors that may contribute to this situation such as electrical phasing of the drivers, placement of the speakers relative to each other and the listener, and cancellation/reinforcement nodes in the room.

[acre]

Hi BFISH and thanks for your words.

I've often wondered about the bass re-direction circuit in my Sony amp. I set the front speakers to "large" on the amp configuration panel and yet when you do that, the amp sends a relatively small amount of bass to the Altecs! Set them to "small" and the 811B horns sound o.k. but the sub will put you out of the room while leaving a giant whole in the bass track. Like most high quality subs, mine goes up to 150 Hz only, unlike baby subs that come with a HT packages, whereby the sub does ALL the bass.

The EQ on the Sony is a mystery to me as well. You select one frequency at a time and apply the db gain or cut but does the amp remember each setting or can you only adjust one frequency per set of speakers, i.e. fronts, rears, center..??

I tried what you said about running stereo and at low levels I still need the bass boost on but the sound is much better. I set the LFE to +10db and that makes a big differece to the sub only. The basement room where they are played is 22 x 34 feet with a very dry sound. There is carpet throughout, suspeded ceiling and drywalled walls. Fro movies they sound excellent now. For regular CD's the boost is a must. The LF drivers don't appear to be overdriven so I guess I'll just run with the boost switch "on". Thanks again....Lee

[bfish]

Lee,
The EQ (and other) settings are stored until reset, and I believe for the EQ, you have to settle for a single freq. per channel. Also, the unit saves the settings individually, for EACH input mode, so if you get a good setup while input is on, say, DVD, those settings go out the window when you change sources to, say, TV. When you get everything the way you like for a given input mode, press "SET" to save, then switch source modes, and do it all again. Since you've got a set of mains that almost don't need sub support, try selecting the lowest EQ freq. possible, for both the mains and sub, and boost the mains, while attenuating the sub at the same freq. Setting front speaker size to LARGE lets them have more LF as you've found, too. Even after all that, I've never been happy with music that comes from a stereo source that the Sony converts to 5.1.
Soooo....I cheat. I have a Creative SB Extigy external sound card on my PC that also 'decodes' stereo to 5.1. I've run the tape out (2 ch) from the Sony to the line in on the Extigy, and use the Extigy's optical out back to the Sony, and use the A.F.D. setting on the Sony, so it "plays it as it sees it", using the Extigy's EQ settings. This works pretty well, and since the Extigy will work standalone, once you've set it up, you don't have to have your PC up to use it. It does an excellent job with WMAs and MP3s as well. You might be able to do something similar with an external EQ in the 2 ch tape loop, but I haven't tried it. It's all way too complicated for my liking though. Oh yeah, an extended power outage causes the Sony to reset to default......

CHEERS!

[gonefishin']

Hi acre


Sounds like the speaker project went well! I know the cabinets that GM has helped me build have been a much appreciated improvement. Smoother, flatter, cleaner and deeper.

Unfortunately I screwed my back up a couple months back (going thru physical therapy right now ) So finishing the cabinets is a bit delayed But what's left is just further bracing and "finishing" the cabinet.

Does your HT receiver have any pre-amp outs? Where you could hook an external amp to power the Altecs?

My brother and I have tried a few amps on his modified Altecs. I would look into the HT receiver being a culprit before dismantling the speakers. Also, I wouldn't be too worried about overall Wattage ratings. You may find that several lower powered amps can out perform 100Watt receivers.

just my two cents...work it out!


dan

[acre]

Thanks for your very valuable input guys. I think my new Altec boxes sound quite good when driven by a good old stereo amp of decent quality. Now that I think of it, the audio store where I bought my Servo 15 also sells high end HT receivers. This is a store that specializes in REAL high end HT. Some of their installations have been in the $30 to 45 thousand range and I can remember the owner telling me that the Sony's are pretty good for small speaker systems whereby the sub does most of the work. Perhaps he could recommend an amp for my particular setup. Oh, and Bfish, thanks for descibing the EQ on the Sony. I've never been able to understand it and by your desciption, I think it's a joke if you can only set one band per speaker pair! That's like having an EQ device with only one slider!! Thanks again.....Lee