Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 41

Thread: So what excuses can we make for them now?

  1. #1
    Inactive Member R13's Avatar
    Join Date
    September 25th, 2007
    Posts
    10,269
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    So what excuses can we make for them now?

    UNITED NATIONS (AP) ? The U.N. Security Council called early Tuesday for an "impartial" investigation of Israel's deadly commando raid on ships taking humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip and condemned the "acts" that resulted in the loss of at least nine lives.

    After an emergency meeting and marathon negotiations that lasted nearly 12 hours, the 15 council members finally agreed on a presidential statement. It was weaker than what was initially demanded by the Palestinians, Arabs and Turkey because of objections by the United States, Israel's closest ally.

    The Islamic nations had called for condemnation of Monday's attack by Israeli forces on the flotilla "in the strongest terms" and "an independent international investigation."

    ISRAEL: Battle at sea was provoked

    But the presidential statement that was finally agreed to and read at a formal council meeting instead called for "a prompt, impartial, credible and transparent investigation conforming to international standards." And it only condemned "those acts" that resulted in deaths, without naming Israel.

    The long and difficult negotiations were conducted primarily by the United States with Turkey and Lebanon, which are both non-permanent council members.

    Turkey, which had been a close Muslim ally of Israel, used some of the harshest language against the Jewish state for launching the raid against the flotilla, which included a Turkish ferry on which nine pro-Palestinian activists were killed. Hundreds of activists ? many of them Turkish ? were taken from the ships to Israel.

    Turkey's Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, whose country drafted the initial presidential statement, called the Israeli raid "banditry and piracy" on the high seas and "murder conducted by a state."

    Palestinian U.N. observer Riyad Mansour called it a "war crime," and told an open Security Council meeting that "those fleets, one after the other, will be coming until the unethical blockade is put to an end and the suffering stops for our people."

    Organizers of the six-ship Gaza aid flotilla stopped by the Israelis said they would be sending two more ships to challenge the blockade within the next few days.

    While the Palestinians and Turks insisted that the activists on the ships were delivering aid to impoverished Gazans suffering under a three-year Israeli embargo, Israel's deputy U.N. ambassador Daniel Carmon said "this flotilla was anything but a humanitarian mission."

    Some activists have "terrorist history" and its organizers support radical Islamic groups such as Hamas, which controls Gaza and refuses to recognize Israel's existence, he said.

    Carmon defended the legality of Israel's blockade and the boarding of the ships ? which refused repeated calls to send their cargo to Gaza through Israel ? as "a preventive measure." He called the results "tragic and unfortunate."

    After the presidential statement was read, both sides immediately disagreed on how the investigation would be conducted.

    Mexico's U.N. Ambassador Claude Heller, who took over the council presidency from Lebanon at midnight, said "impartial" meant "independent" and that Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has the responsibility to organize the investigation. He also said it was clear the condemnation referred to the "excessive force" by the Israeli military.

    The Palestinians' Mansour said almost all the members of the Security Council support Heller's interpretation. He said the Palestinians and Arabs would press the secretary-general to pursue an independent investigation.

    Yigal Palmor, a spokesman for the Israeli Foreign Ministry, said he doubted the potential "objectivity" and independence of such a U.N.-sponsored investigation.

    "Considering the countries that support this option, we have every reason to fear for its independence," Palmor said Tuesday on French radio France Inter.

    U.S. deputy ambassador Alejandro Wolff said Heller's interpretation is "not our understanding" of the wording regarding an investigation.

    "The secretary-general called for a full investigation, and we believe the Israelis are capable of conducting a full investigation," he said. He added that as far as condemnation the United States did not want to "prejudge any outcomes, or prejudge any conclusions."

    The presidential statement also "deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries" and requests the immediate release of the ships and civilians being held by Israel. It urges Israel to permit consular access and allow countries to retrieve their dead and wounded immediately.

    The council also urged Israel "to ensure the delivery of humanitarian assistance from the convoy to its destination" and stressed that the situation in Gaza "is not sustainable."

    Council members reiterated "their grave concern at the humanitarian situation in Gaza and stress the need for sustained and regular flow of goods and people to Gaza as well as unimpeded provision and distribution of humanitarian assistance through Gaza."

    Mansour said this was "the clearest statement by the Security Council on lifting the siege against the Gaza Strip."

    While the Palestinians and their supporters would have liked a stronger statement, Mansour praised the entire council, including the U.S., for "acting in a responsible way" and allowing the council to adopt a statement.

    A presidential statement ? read by the council president at a formal meeting ? must be approved by all 15 members and becomes part of the Security Council's official record. But it is not as strong as a council resolution which can demand that countries take specific actions, impose sanctions and authorize military operations.

    On the broader Mideast, the statement adopted early Tuesday expressed support for the U.S.-sponsored indirect peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.

    U.N. condemns Israeli flotilla raid, calls for investigation - USATODAY.com

  2. #2
    Inactive Member 1inStripes's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 25th, 2002
    Posts
    12,052
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Re: So what excuses can we make for them now?

    The UN is trying to slap Israel on the wrist to appease the Arab world for no real wrong done in this situation IMO.
    "Call me crazy, but I want to buy the Dallas Cowboys end zone and have the star right at the foot of my bed. That way when I score, I can spike the ball right on the star!" -Woody Paige, Around the Horn 10.9.08

  3. #3
    Inactive Member TheBeast's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 24th, 2004
    Posts
    4,351
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Re: So what excuses can we make for them now?

    In addition to what follows the entire amount of supplies on all six ships combined equaled on fourth of what Israel takes into Gaza everyday themselves, and the supplies that were on the ships were taken in by Israel on Tuesday.



    Dozens of passengers who were aboard the Mavi Marmara Turkish passenger ship are suspected of having connections with global jihad-affiliated terrorist organizations, defense officials said on Tuesday, amid growing concerns that Turkish warships would accompany a future flotilla to the Gaza Strip.

    According to the defense officials, the IDF has identified about 50 passengers on the ship who could have terrorist connections with global jihad-affiliated groups.

    RELATED:
    Editorial: A turning point for Turkey
    What is the IHH?

    During its searches of the Mavi Marmara on Tuesday, the military also discovered a cache of bulletproof vests and night-vision goggles, as well as gas masks. On Monday morning, at least nine foreign activists were killed during the navy’s takeover of the Mavi Marmara, which was trying to break Israel’s blockade of the Gaza Strip.

    The group of over 50 passengers with possible terror connections have refused to identify themselves and were not carrying passports. Many of them were carrying envelopes packed with thousands of dollars in cash.

    The military is working to identify the passengers and is looking into the possibility that some of them have been involved in terror attacks. Some of them are apparently known Islamic extremists.

    “This is the group that was behind the violent lynch against the naval commandos,” a defense official said. “They came on board the ship prepared and after they had trained for the expected navy takeover.”

    Late Tuesday, there were reports that Issam al-Budur, Jordan’s consul in Israel, reached an agreement with Israel according to which another group of 124 detained flotilla activists would be taken by bus to Jordan and sent from there to their home countries. The detainees are Jordanian, Mauritanian, Moroccan, Kuwaiti, Pakistani, Indonesian and Syrian.

    Meanwhile Tuesday, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan warned Israel not to test Ankara’s patience.

    “Turkey’s hostility is as strong as its friendship is valuable,” he said. “Israel in no way can legitimize this murder, it cannot wash its hand of this blood.”

    This comment, officials said, could signify a change in Turkish military posture in the event that another flotilla is dispatched to the Gaza Strip. One official said that the chances that Turkey would send navy ships were slim – due to its membership in NATO – but that the issue was of great concern.

    “This is a definite possibility that we need to prepare for,” a senior defense official said.

    The flotilla that arrived late on Sunday night comprised six ships, and another two ships, including the Rachel Corrie, are expected to attempt to enter Israeli waters in the coming days.

    Greta Berlin of the Free Gaza Movement, which organized the flotilla, said that two vessels, one a cargo ship and another carrying about three dozen passengers, would arrive in the region late this week or early next week.

    “This initiative is not going to stop,” she said from the group’s base in Cyprus. “We think eventually Israel will get some kind of common sense. They’re going to have to stop the blockade of Gaza, and one of the ways to do this is for us to continue to send the boats.”

    Irish Prime Minister Brian Cowen described the Rachel Corrie as Irish-owned and said it should be allowed to finish its mission, according to Reuters. The ship was carrying 15 activists, including a northern Irish Nobel Peace laureate.

    “The government has formally requested the Israeli government to allow the Irish-owned ship... to be allowed to complete its journey unimpeded and discharge its humanitarian cargo in Gaza,” Cowen told members of parliament in Dublin.

    Navy sources said that the ships sailing toward Gaza would be intercepted the same way the flotilla was stopped on Monday morning, although it had yet to be decided if the operation would be carried out by Shayetet 13, the navy’s commando unit.

    “We are tracking the ships and are under orders to stop them,” a top navy officer said.

    According to the sources, in a future operation, the navy would use more force.

    “We boarded the ship [the Mavi Marmara] and were attacked as if it were a war,” one officer said. “That will mean that we will have to come prepared in the future as if it were a war.”
    [COLOR="Lime"][SIZE="6"][FONT="Century Gothic"]CREAG AN TUIRC[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]
    [img]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/mm38nut/thkfc.gif[/img]

  4. #4
    Inactive Member Gotch's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 27th, 2003
    Posts
    2,592
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Re: So what excuses can we make for them now?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1inStripes View Post
    The UN is trying to slap Israel on the wrist to appease the Arab world for no real wrong done in this situation IMO.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by R13 View Post
    So what excuses can we make for them now?
    This was a legal policing action that resulted in an assault upon the policing body that included the taking of weapons from members of the policing party.

    Point? Try getting a few friends together and disarm a local cop or two, see if your ass don't get shot too.
    [img]http://www.lutte-wrestling.com/old-train2.jpg[/img]

  5. #5
    Inactive Member R13's Avatar
    Join Date
    September 25th, 2007
    Posts
    10,269
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Re: So what excuses can we make for them now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotch View Post

    This was a legal policing action that resulted in an assault upon the policing body that included the taking of weapons from members of the policing party.

    Point? Try getting a few friends together and disarm a local cop or two, see if your ass don't get shot too.


    Ha! This was bullying by Israel once again. They dropped onto a ship, they're going to get some resistance, the few weapons that were "disarmed" were thrown into the water. Oh and a 60 year old, yeah, an unarmed senior citizen was slain...along with a US teen. Some of the ones killed weren't even at close distance.

    That's a terrible argument too. One, they didn't do anything to them like that, the Israelis came on their ship. And two, they weren't armed. If I went at a cop like that unarmed, I'd probably get the shit knocked out of me, tased or sprayed...not shot in the head. Absolutely no reason 9 unarmed people had to die.

    Swarm a ship with boats and helicopters for no reason, you're going to get some resistance. The ship shouldn't ahve been attacked in the first place, then to murder 9 unarmed people is disgusting. There's a reason all videos were confiscated by the Israeli army, then the one just released that made them look like Mother Teresa. This isn't just another one of their acts that doesn't get much coverage, this has bid ramifications, Turkey was a rare Islamic ally to Israel...that's changed.

  6. #6
    Inactive Member 1inStripes's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 25th, 2002
    Posts
    12,052
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Re: So what excuses can we make for them now?

    Come on man. Israel made them aware of what would happen when they left port if they tried reaching Gaza. It happens quite frequently there. Rarely do the people on those boats resist. This time they met the troops with clubs and etc. After having at 1 man stabbed, they were given permission to use force. I would tend to believe if the Israeli army was really afraid of much resistance they would have taken much heavier ammo.
    "Call me crazy, but I want to buy the Dallas Cowboys end zone and have the star right at the foot of my bed. That way when I score, I can spike the ball right on the star!" -Woody Paige, Around the Horn 10.9.08

  7. #7
    Inactive Member TheBeast's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 24th, 2004
    Posts
    4,351
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Re: So what excuses can we make for them now?

    I would tend to believe if the Israeli army was really afraid of much resistance they would have taken much heavier ammo.
    If they were they wouldn't have boarded at all they would have just lit them up from the helicopter.

    Why didn't these activists follow the proper procedures for distributing aid to the Palestinians instead of going at it like that dumbshit bunch from whale wars??????
    [COLOR="Lime"][SIZE="6"][FONT="Century Gothic"]CREAG AN TUIRC[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]
    [img]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/mm38nut/thkfc.gif[/img]

  8. #8
    Inactive Member Gotch's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 27th, 2003
    Posts
    2,592
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Re: So what excuses can we make for them now?

    Quote Originally Posted by R13 View Post
    Ha! This was bullying by Israel once again. They dropped onto a ship, they're going to get some resistance, the few weapons that were "disarmed" were thrown into the water. Oh and a 60 year old, yeah, an unarmed senior citizen was slain...along with a US teen. Some of the ones killed weren't even at close distance.

    That's a terrible argument too. One, they didn't do anything to them like that, the Israelis came on their ship. And two, they weren't armed. If I went at a cop like that unarmed, I'd probably get the shit knocked out of me, tased or sprayed...not shot in the head. Absolutely no reason 9 unarmed people had to die.

    Swarm a ship with boats and helicopters for no reason, you're going to get some resistance. The ship shouldn't ahve been attacked in the first place, then to murder 9 unarmed people is disgusting. There's a reason all videos were confiscated by the Israeli army, then the one just released that made them look like Mother Teresa. This isn't just another one of their acts that doesn't get much coverage, this has bid ramifications, Turkey was a rare Islamic ally to Israel...that's changed.
    Two things really stand out among that^ dribble. One, you clearly have a deep seeded hatred of (Israel? cough-cough) and two you are clueless about the ramifications of attempting and or succeeding in disarming a policing force. You will get shot....period.
    [img]http://www.lutte-wrestling.com/old-train2.jpg[/img]

  9. #9
    Inactive Member simple man's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 11th, 2008
    Posts
    1,001
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Re: So what excuses can we make for them now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotch View Post
    Two things really stand out among that^ dribble. One, you clearly have a deep seeded hatred of (Israel? cough-cough) and two you are clueless about the ramifications of attempting and or succeeding in disarming a policing force. You will get shot....period.
    Good answer- we could re-use the excuses the Israelis (yeah, I work underground and can't spell) used in 67 when they shot the Liberty to shit.
    We'll keep the lights on for you.
    Spuds

  10. #10
    Inactive Member Gotch's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 27th, 2003
    Posts
    2,592
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Re: So what excuses can we make for them now?

    Quote Originally Posted by simple man View Post
    Good answer- we could re-use the excuses the Israelis (yeah, I work underground and can't spell) used in 67 when they shot the Liberty to shit.
    Let's tell a bit more of that story. That was right smack dab in the middle of the 6 day war and the previous day Israel had bombed some of their own troops. There is absolutely no evidence to support anything other than a friendly fire incident. Sad, but it happens. Some understandably pissed off survivors and a large contingency of conspiracy theorist aside it was clearly a mistake. Are all of our numerous friendly fire incidents actually insidious plots to rule the world?

    A more accurate comparison would be to relate it to cops killing unarmed but resisting suspects. Oh, that's right they do use that excuse, and successfully so, over and over and over.
    [img]http://www.lutte-wrestling.com/old-train2.jpg[/img]

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •