Question

[buckeye_fan]

Who do you think Jesus was talking about when he said "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"
John 14:16 (KJV)

or another translation:
16 And I will make prayer to the Father and he will give you another Helper to be with you for ever, 17 Even the Spirit of true knowledge. That Spirit the world is not able to take to its heart because it sees him not and has no knowledge of him: but you have knowledge of him, because he is ever with you and will be in you.
John 14:16-17 (BBE)

To me, that is surefire proof of the trinity, God the Father (whom Jesus was praying to), God the Son(who was praying), and God the Holy Spirit (Comforter) whose presence Jesus was requesting.

Let's be careful when saying "surefire proof". If you have faith that that's true, then so be it. For the rest of us, a Bible verse isn't proof.

[Gotch]

Who do you think Jesus was talking about when he said "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"
John 14:16 (KJV)

or another translation:
16 And I will make prayer to the Father and he will give you another Helper to be with you for ever, 17 Even the Spirit of true knowledge. That Spirit the world is not able to take to its heart because it sees him not and has no knowledge of him: but you have knowledge of him, because he is ever with you and will be in you.
John 14:16-17 (BBE)

To me, that is surefire proof of the trinity, God the Father (whom Jesus was praying to), God the Son(who was praying), and God the Holy Spirit (Comforter) whose presence Jesus was requesting.

I'm sorry but I'm not seeing how that supports the basic trinity belief or definition of "one God exists in three Persons"?

If anything it seems to me to suggest against it?

[ut1]

I'm sorry but I'm not seeing how that supports the basic trinity belief or definition of "one God exists in three Persons"?

If anything it seems to me to suggest against it?

Water can be found in three distinct forms: solid, liquid, and gas. No matter what form they are in, you still have H20. I only understand the forms they are in, and that temperature is the deciding factor in their form. I can't explain why it happens (without the help of a molecular scientist)...I just accept that it does. It is the same for me with the Trinity - God in Three Persons - I accept that is how it is because His word says there is only One God,and that He is clearly represented in the scriptures as three distinct persons. I don't understand it, I just accept that's the way it is. That's where faith comes in. Jesus is not the Father, but the Bible says He is God. The Father is not the Holy Spirit, yet the Father is God. The Holy Spirit is not Jesus, yet the Holy Spirit is God.
I don't see how a black cow can eat green grass and give white milk, but I do know that I like milk. I just take it for what it is.

[Gotch]

I really don't want to try to convince anyone of a particular position, so I hesitate to "debate" the point. In fact in my personal belief system it is of no real importance to me. In my own opinion it seems to simply be a way of trying to explain a Monotheism
with three God figures. Personally I don't believe this criticism is valid and thus needs no defending, thus no trinity.

I usually won't use Bible verse to make a point, but in this case in might be appropriate.

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" - 1Timothy 2:5


"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." - Mark 13:32

"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." - John 14:28

"Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only." - Matthew 4:10

"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." - John 17:3

"Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" - John 20:17

There are literally dozens more....again, the only reason for this belief (IMO) is to defend against Christainity being accused of polytheism.