Solutions

[Scott Nocella]

It's a space in time to tighten all the relationships up around ourselves....I have been doing it for the last number of years. There is no more use for dysfunction...no more use for rushing ourselves and/or especially our children. Truth needs to addressed. It would be a dis-service to future generations to bury this truth. Truth is there is currently a mainstream media black-out.....only it's very noticeable now. It was noticeable for a long time to me. It' time to cover the other side of hatred...and that's peace. I've seen every military commander and their counterparts that want a strike...but there is hardly any coverage of people that want peace. Media here is and has been manipulated for a long time. The most important thing to those that want economics to play a part is to get the markets up and rolling again. That's just self explanatory to me. Markets do not drive nations....people do. It's a time for people to solve this not markets. People who seek the betterment of all of us from the peace process need to be heard. The way we've all been living is now a memory....it's now time for change. There will be a lot of change coming....it's our choice to allow for it to be good within ourselves.

------------------

[MovieStuff]

Scott,

I normally appreciate your "positive spin" on things. But in this case, you're missing the point. I will love you and everyone on this forum; hell, I'll even love Alex. In fact, I'll love anyone that doesn't want to kill me on sight. Get it, now?

Roger

[Scott Nocella]

Roger,

I almost lost a family member and I am willing to forgive for the larger picture...that's my choice. I see peace as the only solution in order for things to change on a global basis....maybe that's hard for you to accept for yourself, and if it is that's your choice. I respect your feelings, so please respect mine. I do not put my values on you....I only share how I feel as you do. So when you normally appreciate what I do...that's very nice.....but when my values differ from your values, don't knock me for feeling the way I do since I do not judge you nor should you me. I look at this communication as a learning experience for all of us....maybe instead of being so angry we can be objective and ask ourselves why this really happened and how we can take steps to increase the potential for good things to happen by honoring our agreements on a worldwide basis and fully participating in peace conferances(The World Racism Conferance, Kyoto agreement, Ballistic Missle Agreements)we will see what happens when you honor our words and lead by principle not fear and hatred. So that is just a small slice of truth that we must all deal with since all our realities are becoming one reality currently.....perhaps we can look at each other with total objectivity and get down to the real work at hand....the real question is do you know who you are....I know who I am, and I'm not going to waste time on angry rhetoric....I'm continuing the work that I do
WWW.Worldharmonyunlimited.com

Scott

It's your choice Roger, I respect you either way....so respect me either way.



------------------

[Dominic3]

I have a solution for Alex and his comrades - if you are unhapy with the current wealth creators in this world, ( after all, wealth has to be CREATED before it can be redistributed and looted by academics, environmentalists and politicians), no one is stopping you guys from starting up your own multinational corporations so that you can create huge amounts of wealth and implement your own economic and social policies instead of criticising those that do create the wealth and improeve the quality of lives of millions of people.

I will end my posts with the following ( I have just received some bad news from New York):

Freedom , in a political context, has only one meaning: the absence of physical coercion - where no one ( or government) has the right to "INITIATE " the use of physical force against any indivdual - for what ever purpose.

Intellectual freedom can not exist without political freedom, political freedom can not exists without economic freedom; a free mind and a free market are corollaries.

[Dominic3]

I have a solution for Alex and his comrades - if you are unhapy with the current wealth creators in this world, ( after all, wealth has to be CREATED before it can be redistributed and looted by academics, environmentalists and politicians), no one is stopping you guys from starting up your own multinational corporations so that you can create huge amounts of wealth and implement your own economic and social policies instead of criticising those that do create the wealth and improeve the quality of lives of millions of people.

I will end my posts with the following ( I have just received some bad news from New York):

Freedom , in a political context, has only one meaning: the absence of physical coercion - where no one ( or government) has the right to "INITIATE " the use of physical force against any indivdual - for what ever purpose.

Intellectual freedom can not exist without political freedom, political freedom can not exists without economic freedom; a free mind and a free market are corollaries.

[Dominic3]

I have a solution for Alex and his comrades - if you are unhappy with the current wealth creators in America, ( after all, wealth has to be CREATED before it can be redistributed and looted by academics, environmentalists and politicians), no one is stopping you guys from starting up your own multinational corporations so that you can create huge amounts of wealth and implement your own economic and social policies instead of criticising those that do create the wealth and improeve the quality of lives of millions of people.

I will end my posts with the following ( I have just received some bad news from New York):

Freedom , in a political context, has only one meaning: the absence of physical coercion - where no one ( or government) has the right to "INITIATE " the use of physical force against any indivdual - for what ever purpose.

Intellectual freedom can not exist without political freedom, political freedom can not exists without economic freedom; a free mind and a free market are corollaries.

[Matt Pacini]

I think everyone is missing my point entirely.
I am an extremely loving person, and I've done all sorts of things to help many unfortunates, but I'm not here to blow my own horn, so I'm not going to list details.
I live an extremely spartan lifestyle, I live in a mobile home, for gods sake! I'm using oil lamps to read by, hang drying my clothes, etc., to save energy, and my point is:

That Alex and everyone else in the West, are living approximately the same lifestyle as I am (if not MORE in most cases), and yet, in spite of the fact that Alex for example, uses MORE energy than I do, I'm the uncaring one, I'm the unloving one, I'm the one who isn't part of the solution BECAUSE OF MY POLITICAL OPINIONS ONLY, and NOT based on my actual behavior!!!!
Do you get it?

This is the same human phychology behind what I was talking about in my posts a couple weeks ago, about everyone saying "Hollywood films are crap. Indie's are the only true art", yet they watch all the same crap as anyone else.
Different subject, same stupid state of mind:

"It doesn't matterer what I actually do, just what I say".
This is the legacy of the 60's, and more recently the Clinton legacy (don't get me started!).

I'm just sick and tired of people who are live in bigger houses than me, driving more cars than me, generating more garbage than me, and using up more energy than me, telling me I'm evil because I believe that people should pay for murdering others, and everyone should work for their pay, not just get freakin handouts!

It's really easy to blame big business for everything, then still drive you're damn gas guzzlers (I don't care how old your cars are, if energy efficiency is the #1 prioirty, they get a new one, eh? Stop always finding a way to pay yourself on the back).

If you're driving a car, then all those "evil" forces doing what's necessary to keep gas in your car are not the bad guys, you are for continuing to demand the gas.

I personally don't care, because the reality is, we live in a world (and always have) that requires energy to do things, to make things, and yes, enjoy life.

We BUY gas from other countries. You calling paying for a product a "BRIBE" only highlights your own socialist belief system, because that's really warped.

When you buy a watermelon at the grocery store, are you "bribing" the checker? It's called supply and demand, the whole world has always worked this way, and if it bothers you, stop being on the "demand" side, sell your cars, and see how convenient it is to walk everywhere you want to go.

Matt Pacini

------------------

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dominic3:
I have a solution for Alex and his comrades - if you are unhapy with the current wealth creators in this world, ( after all, wealth has to be CREATED before it can be redistributed and looted by academics, environmentalists and politicians), no one is stopping you guys from starting up your own multinational corporations so that you can create huge amounts of wealth and implement your own economic and social policies instead of criticising those that do create the wealth and improeve the quality of lives of millions of people.

I will end my posts with the following ( I have just received some bad news from New York):

Freedom , in a political context, has only one meaning: the absence of physical coercion - where no one ( or government) has the right to "INITIATE " the use of physical force against any indivdual - for what ever purpose.

Intellectual freedom can not exist without political freedom, political freedom can not exists without economic freedom; a free mind and a free market are corollaries.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You mistake corporate freedom with personal freedom.


It starts with an innocent looking memo.

"Increase Revenues by 10% or you are Fired"

The memo is sent from "Corporate" Headquarters to their affiliate locations around the U.S.

Never done face to face....the memo arrives in the middle of the night.

It is a violent paper act deemed "peaceful" merely because there is no violent explosion to replay over and over.

"Your coverage has been denied" peacefully sent on paper to a hopeful policyholder...

....the rammifications can be as destructive as a bomb to the policyholder, and in many instances the decision to not provide coverage was not based on fairness, simply guidelines designed to maximize profits for shareholders.

And then there is Wall Street...who's sole purpose is to generate profits for shareholders.

Are These Really Acts of Peace?

Or are These Acts Designed to Maximize the Shareholders Piece of Profit.

It seems that Corporate America has earned the right to seek out profit at all costs to others, and never be viewed as a violent entity for pursuing a course of action that places little importance on general humanity or the plight of others.

"Our Non-Profit Foundation will give-back to the community, and we can publicize that for profit"...I guess it all works out.

It is this principle of corporate "paper-violence" that allows for a much leaner sentence to be given to a "non-violent" corporate embezzler who may have stolen 20 million dollars than is given to the everyday street thug.

Even when the corporate embezzler's actions result in the slow and torturous deaths from poverty of the many they have stolen from, the corporate embezzler is still given a much lighter sentence in minimum security prisons compared to the everyday criminal.

Corporate Paper-Violence is the most insidious type of violence. Stealthful in Nature, Corporate Paper-Violence Masks all outward signs of devastation and destruction, targets its victims one by one, and is really quite "legal" and "proper".

Corporate Paper-Violence is the stalwart companion to our "strong, healthy, economy", and heartily embraced by the stock-holders of most corporations.

Don't confuse Corporate America with America.


-Alex

------------------

------------------


[This message has been edited by Alex (edited September 13, 2001).]

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scott Nocella:
Markets do not drive nations....people do. It's a time for people to solve this, not markets.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a deeply profound statement, and unfortunately, it is not true.

In fact, in the U.S. with each passing year, media, and images about sex and cleavage, bombard us at an increasing rate because the criteria used for all shows is ratings and nothing more.

In "Business", more and more time revolves around what "Wall-Street" is doing to create profits for it's shareholders.

Wall Street does very little other than try and maximize profits for shareholders.

A few years back, when 3M manufacturing announced the elimination of 5,000 jobs making videotape, 3M's stock went up.

Even though the tape division was not losing money, heck, it was making money, but just not enough!

AND, 3M's tape product was considered the best in the country according to Consumption Reports Magazine.

Not good enough for Wall Street, 3M shares and it's perception as a "Solid" business only went up after the elimination of a product that didn't meek the "standards" of Wall Street.

We have no counter-point to Wall Street in this country.

Just random "tree-huggers" and "environmental" "extremists" "wackos" who don't love America....(do you see that in our own way, we are as big a zealot against others as the religious groups we scorn).

Without an effective daily counter-point to Wall Street, Wall-Street is just a big, profit seeking at all other expense juggernaut that cannot be reasoned with or even cajoled into sometimes doing the right thing, or the honorable thing.

Don't be fooled by Wall Street.

They will hide behind the death of 25,000 people to collect their own insurance benefits, even though insurance benefits ARE DENIED in acts of war...as this attack was.

So the same Wall Street Group that has put countless 10's of millions in this country through hell with gargantuan loopholes to deny health-care and insurance coverage for virtually any reason down to a hangnail will stealthfully slip in and claim their huge share of the insurance pie, even though their very own rules that define no coverage in acts of war mean they are not elegible.

Not only do we not have an effective check and balance to Wall Street, none is on the way.

Funny thing about free speech.

In other parts of the world, free-speech leads to punishment....

Here it leads to being ignored.

Is either way better?

-Alex



------------------

[Dominic3]

Alex

With respect, you are confusing two issues here - economics and ethics.

Capitalism, (or the voluntary exchange of value for value for mutual profit), as an economic system is the only system that actually CREATES wealth and socialism, (as has been witnessed in EVERY country that has implemented it in whole or in part), has either caused economic stagnation or total collapse - Britain in the 1970's and Russia in the late 80's and Cuba etc now.

Surely you are not advocating socialism as a solution, with its subordination of the individual to the "state" and the denial of individual property rights, the morality of self abnegation, economic collapse etc.?

Now, on the issue of ethics, I will aggree with you there are some business owners who lack integrity, honesty and a moral base and view it as acceptable to decieve or take advantage of others in the pursuit of profit for thems elves, BUT there are just as many, (if not more), employees that also behave in this way - cheat their expenses, steal from the office supplies, rip off customers, rip off their bosses.

It is not the economic system which is at fault - it is an issue of philosophy. It is philosophy, (or one's view of existence), which shapes human behaviour.

The main aspect which needs to change is the false premise that it is only "human nature" to be dishonest - rather than a choice influenced by an individual's view of existence.

The idea that it is justifiable to live off the efforts of others by force or deception , exploitation etc., stems from this notion - "well I'm only human" or " well,everyone does it" etc.

In fact MOST people and corporations DO NOT behave in this way - it is not in their self interest. Look at all the most successful corporations in the world, they treat their employees extremely well and as a result they get the most out of them and enjoy large profits, which in turn go onto create more wealth, more investment in other areas such as science, medicine, technolgy, etc., and go on to improve the quality and standard of human existence.

Until the notion of "original sin" is obliterated we will continue to see immoral oppurtunists using this an an excuse for any sort of malevolent behaviour .

Th other main area of philosophy that needs to change is the morality of sacrifice - the idea that the highest moral ideal is not to LIVE your life but to SACRIFICE it - eg. in the name of the "state" as in Socialism, your "race" as in Nazism, your "tribe", your "god", "the environment" etc etc., but thats a much longer topic to write about and I really dont have the time right now.

I refer you once gain the the quotes I left on my previous post.

Dominic



------------------