E-Slay!

[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matt Pacini:
Yeah, but they still can't snipe you if your bid is higher than theirs!
Whoever bids the most, at the moment the auction closes, wins, not just whoever bids last...

Matt Pacini
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but in my experience the times I lost in the past was by, like, a couple of bucks and not several hundred or even 10 or 20. That's what the sniping software does. It will shoot through as many bids at what ever increment you want in the last few seconds faster than anyone could do it manually.

I agree with you that, if you are willing to pay $200, then bid $200. But anyone willing to pay $200 would also be willing to pay $201, just to win the auction (wouldn't you?) Sniping, manual or automatic, will let you do that. Is it cheating? Hard call, since it's available for anyone that wants it and we all have our own personal ways of trying to be the "last with the most" on ebay.

I use the method I described in an earler post ONLY if an item is rare and I just can't live without it. Otherwise, I just proxy bid and let the chips fall where they may.

Roger

[Matt Pacini]

I think you don't know how ebay works, because I've bid on things for WAY over what the last person did, but you only pay the preset increment over what they did, so you have no idea what they bid.
For instance, I bought some darkroom items, which included a Lowel Pro light, which I wanted.
I bid $80.00, and the auction closed at $40., because the last guy bid $38. or $39. (I forget exactly).
So I'm sure he was pissed, saying that he would gladly have paid $40., etc.
He had no idea that I mid $80.
And still, the bottom line is, if you would have been willing to pay $201. as you said, then you should bid $201.
I don't think the sniping software is only bidding the increment over the last guys bid, it's only assuring that you're last.
I would imagine it still asks you the max you're willing to bid...
I agree, I only do this is I'm really hot for something, otherwise, why bother?
It's risky too, I've tried to slip in there at the last minute, only to have my ISP bog down and cost me the auction.

Matt Pacini

------------------

[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matt Pacini:
I think you don't know how ebay works,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

On the contrary, I understand it completely.

The sniping software, which I don't use, lets you load a maximum amount and an incremental amount. This is different than just placing a proxy bid of $200 for an item that you would also pay $201 for. Why? Because if you only bid $200 and someone else bids $201 then they'll get the item! Sniping software will rapidly shoot bids though in $1.00 increments, if you want, over and over and over until it overcomes the highest bidder. It does this automatically RIGHT at the end of the auction thus preventing the price from inflating early on.

My method is similar but is dependent on the admittedly scarey notion that someone else won't bid, say, $500 on an item that is only worth $201. Therefore, if I only bid a maximum proxy bid of $200 and walk away and someone else bids $201 at the last minute, then I lose. On the other hand if, in the last five seconds, I raise my bid from $200 to something ridiculous like $500, then anyone that only bids $201 or even $220 at the last second is going to lose and I will only pay the next increment above that next highest bid; i.e. $221, if the increments are only $1.00 for that item.

However, if I had placed a proxy bid of $500 on an item worth only $201 early on, there is too big a risk that the seller will use a friend to "pick at the scab" as Alex put it, just to see what the highest proxy bid is. So there is value in the method I use since waiting until the last second keeps the price from getting driven up artificially.

Now, if someone else with my lack of ethics decides to do the same thing, then I could get screwed and have to pay a larger amount than I really want. This is why I only use this method for items that are rare and that I really have a woody for. Otherwise, I use a proxy bid and simply check the end of auction to see if I won or lost.

Roger

[cameraguy]

Moviestuff, your comments on "sniping" software border on the insane . Why on earth would a software rapid bid when you all you have to do is give your max amount and be done with it. The winner is never pays more than one increment over the second. I always get a laugh out of newbies who bid 10-20 times in $1-$5 increments until the get on top thinking that they will get it cheaper that way

------------------

[Alex]

"Camera Guy" doesn't post that often, but he sometimes manages to say something gruff mixed in with his observations.

It's annoying when he does it you the first time, but when he does it to someone else, it's funny. I feel like I am a member of the Camera Guy gruff club.

Welcome aboard Roger.

Here's some theories on sniper bidding.

If you check the bid histories on items after the auction closes, you can probably tell if sniper bid software was involved because you would see bid increments of little amounts, right at the close of auction, done so quickly that it could only be done by a computer.
(just a theory)

I rarely if ever have notice those kinds of bids in the bid history on e-bay, so don't worry too much about sniper software yet.

I did what Roger did a couple of times, Ultra High Bid for something that I really wanted and was sure nobody else wanted...

But I decided not to Ultra High Bid anymore because if I ever got "mirrored" by just one other person doing what I was doing, one of us could pay hundreds more for something than was necessary.

Last minute Ultra High Bids are risky because if just one other person mirrors you and puts a high bid in, then one of you will pay way too much money for the item.

So as Roger says, unless you will still cherish the item even if you overpay for it buy hundreds of dollars, it is wise not to Ultra high bid.

A term suspiciously absent from E-Bay's Vernacular is "Buyer's Secret Reserve Bid".

All current "high-bidders have a "Secret Reserve Bid". Many other bidders see the current high price and don't realize the high bidder also has a "Secret Reserve Bid" that is equivalent to their secret high bid, Hence the name, Buyer's Secret Reserve Bid.

So any time you severely overbid for any item on e-bay, you run the risk of running headfirst into the current High Bidders Secret Reserve Bid. The High Bidders Secret Reserve Bid could easily be double or triple or more than the winning bid that is shown before an auction closes.

Sniper Software is only as good as the shooter, it ultimately comes down to what is the most you are willing to pay for an item.

Although as Roger said, heck, what's one more dollar, if it meant you would win instead of lose the item...although, the one more dollar can be an illusion if the other bidder had a High Secret Reserve Bid.



------------------
Alex

[cameraguy]

What is the benefit of rapid bids at the end of an auction? It makes zero point zero sense, please clarify.

If you bid your absolute max as late as possible you can not go wrong.

------------------

[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cameraguy:
What is the benefit of rapid bids at the end of an auction? It makes zero point zero sense, please clarify.

If you bid your absolute max as late as possible you can not go wrong.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's all a matter of psychology. If you place a "super bid" at the end of the session and do it too soon, others will do the same thing because they find that smaller increments don't work. The sniping software supposedly plays a little 'cat and mouse' where it monitors the bids and raises only after the other party raises, etc. Then, during the last few seconds, it can load and shoot bids through so fast that the other party can't possible keep up, though they'll be inclined to try since they don't know they're bidding against a computer.

The end results are basically the same except this is inherenly safer than using the "super bid" method I spoke of earlier and, theoretically, result in lower final bid prices.

But, hey! I live dangerously.

Roger

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cameraguy:

If you bid your absolute max as late as possible you can not go wrong.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I posted the same thing near the beginning of this topic post.

The only danger is you can get a real adrenaline rush, big time, every time you squash the competition and win the auction.

Now that is only a danger if you consider it dangerous to be a addicted to gambling, drugs or some other activity that costs you either your time, money or health, other than that, no problem.

There is a chance your fix, er last second sniper induced adrenaline laden bid might not go through due to computer problems, your reaction to such a mishap might be worth filming.



[This message has been edited by Alex (edited October 18, 2001).]

[cameraguy]

Moviestuff, if there is such software out there then the writer is insane. True "snip" software bids your max amount at the last possible second. This way nobody will have the opportunity to make a come back or shill bid. There is no danger of paying too much as you can only pay as much as your predetermined max. If you lose then you say oh well, I guess he wanted it more than me.

Alex, When I outbid some unsuspecting sap at the last second I do feel superior. I pound my chest and declare how powerful I am

------------------

[Matt Pacini]

The only benefit to the incremental tiny bids, is if you're in a bidding war with someone else at the end, and each of you is trying to pay the bare minimum, but still win.
I've actually done this a few times, when I really wanted something.
For instance, when I won my Bauer 715XL-S on ebay, the bid amount was up to like $200. or something, a couple minutes before hte end of the auction.
I bid like $210., and then saw I was high bidder.
Within a minute or so, the other guy bid a little more, and then HE showed as high bidder.
Then I would do the same, etc., like a poker game.
Well, he figured I was only willing to pay around this amount, since that was what we were upping each other.
But right at the last minute or so, I bid like $600. and this bozo saw me on top again, but the price was only the next increment above the last price, $250. or something, so he bid like $275 or whatever, but by this time it was too late for him to bid again.
Hoever, some sniper swooped in a bid like $435. or something, so I ended up paying I think around $450 for the camera.
Get it?
It's to make your competitors think you're only willing to pay the lesser amount, when in reality, you're going to fly in there with 7 seconds to spare with a really high bid (that you are really willing to pay), then they bid another $5.00 or something, thinking you have continued to bid in $5.00 increments, etc.
But still, whatever technique is used, it's whoever bid the highest amount at close of auction who wins, period.
Those who lose to snipers, are just people who mistakenly think they're going to get the item for a steal, so they don't bid what they really are willing to pay, then get pissed off afterwords for their mistake...

Matt Pacini

------------------