Electronics

[XNavyDrummer]

I mentioned the latency problem to one of the V-drum developers. He was surprised that I had actually measured it and said that it had to do with the processing speed of the module.

[mwm]

I mentioned the latency problem to one of the V-drum developers. He was surprised that I had actually measured it and said that it had to do with the processing speed of the module.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Very odd, Andy -- I certainly don't doubt what you are saying, but I have an inexpensive (relativley) Yamaha DTExpress, and it just doesn't have that problem.

I have played the V-Drums through speakers and haven't noticed what you report, but I have not played them live.

They are too expensive to have that problem. That is, at least they shouldn't -- so if they do, then that is a huge issue. That would make them virtually worthless.

Have you hooked them into a computer to test them that way?

[Jean-Paul]

I am doing a small tour as sub where I have to play on the original drummer's TD-20 set. I always play acoustic with some e-sounds on my left and right so it was a little difficult in the beginning. I have made my own preset and took the idea of an acoustic kit. Choose my shells and sizes, heads, mic position, muffling, cymbals and sizes, treshold etc. and came to a quite satisfying result. Can't say I hate them but can't say I love them. It is a tool which can be great but I think you have to avoid a preset for every song which the original drummer of the band does.

Two questions;

I heard that the drummer on the latest Seal DVD is on V-drums. Has anyone checked it out already?

The only problem I have is that if I hit a crash and bassdrum together, that there is no bassdrum hit. Anyone on how to fix this problem?

[XNavyDrummer]

MRhet,

For the latency measurement, I simply recorded the signal from the TD-10 module in one channel and the signal from a microphone to the other channel. I put the .wav file in SoundForge and measured the distance between the acoustic onset peak and the electonic onset "peak". For the drum pads the latency between acoustic and electronic signal was 3 to 4 ms. Interestingly, the latency for the cymbal pads was around 2 ms.

When playing these drums through a speaker (without other musicians) you'll hear both the acoustic attack and the electronic signal. The result is that you don't really hear a delay because the acoustic and electronic sounds are so close together. Once the band is playing, that acoustic signal will disappear since it's not very loud and then your left with hearing only the electronic signal 3-4 ms after you strike the drum pad. Another frustrating thing is that the signals from the TD-10 do not have the same onset peaks as an acoustic drum. So, basically you're missing the attack altogether. If you look at the time waveform for the TD-10 and compare it to the time waveform from an acoustic drum you'll see the difference.

Next, if you spend time with these while wearing headphones you're not hearing the sound when you strike the drum pad. It seems that the brain can adjust to this latency shift. And you can experience many enjoyable hours playing this way. However, when you switch back to acoustics you may notice that it's actually difficult to play because your mind has adapted to this latency thing.

A few others have reported that after playing electronics under headphones for long periods of time, it takes hours of playing acoustics before the brain adapts to realtime drumming. In other words, it can feel really weird to play acoustic drums after spending several hours playing electronic drums (with a delay problem) through headphones.

The Yamaha electronic drums may not have this processing delay. At least that's the impression that I get from listening to Peter C's recordings.

JP,

I've also played (gigged) a lot with the TD-20 version. I haven't measured the delay on these but they sure play like the delay is still there. I haven't run into the kick disappearing when the crash is played simultaneously. You may want to contact Roland about this. It could have something to do with a phase cancellation of the trigger signal but that would be surprising if that were the case.

(Wow, this is my first long post...so this is what it feels like.)

[donu]

When talking about electronic drum it's always interesting to listen those mp3 ( if you don't knew then already )

http://www.clavia.se/MP3s/index.htm#ddrum

[Jean-Paul]

Thanks Andy, I definitely will because it is very irritating.

[moosetication]

Originally posted by MRhet:
...have an inexpensive (relativley) Yamaha DTExpress, and it just doesn't have that problem.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Its inexpensiveness is partly the reason it doesn't have it. Roland V-drum modules do shedloads of downstream processing with all that COSM (modelling) malarkey. Simpler modules, like the DTXpress, just translate trigger to MIDI, generate the sound, and shove it down the line.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 12, 2005 09:24 AM: Message edited by: moosetication ]</font>

[peter b]

ohhhh man, that's a bummer. i am geating ready to move into the city (condo) and was planning om buying the v-pro set. but not if it's going to F#*K up my playing! it's hard enough to get time, groove, and chops together as it is! [img]mad.gif[/img]

[peter b]

sorry...hit the wrong button

Originally posted by zombywoof:
ohhhh man, that's a bummer. i am geating ready to move into the city (condo) and was planning on buying the v-pro set. but not if it's going to F#*K up my playing! it's hard enough to get time, groove, and chops together as it is! [img]mad.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 12, 2005 09:44 AM: Message edited by: zombywoof ]</font>

[Jean-Paul]

True Zombywoof.

IMHO there are too many adjustable things on this TD-20 too which can make it better but mostly worse. Besides, it is not really road proof with the inputs direct on the print.

I own a TD-6 which is sounding much better well more stable with less problems. I upgraded the set with meshheads. But since I have my own rehearsal room I never touch the TD-6 for practicing.

If I needed to play e-drums for all my gigs I probably would have choosen the DDRUM. I read that they are working on a DDRUM 5. To beat Yamaha and Roland they have to come up with something spectacular.

Does DDRUM has the latency problems too?