The Whole Truth About Endyn

[BurntGSR]

This is an interesting post indeed. I myself am confused but can understand how this has happened.

Larry has been a good person to talk to and has shown trust to me that made me believe everything he's ever told me. Guys, I never paid a dime for anything he's sent me until i've had it in my hands. Now that may not be saying much but not one other shop I know of will do this. I'm talking a few hundred dollars in products per item.

However, from the various customers that have shown no gain from products and the fact that nothing I did was "revolutionary" or strictly of endyn design proves my trust came from a nice person, not proof in the product.

The story above seems to well thought out to be fabricated to me. This especially from what was the most supportive company of ENDYN products. My best wishes to the guy out of a job and to the guys that stayed up days only to get screwed. You guys deserve better and I hope things go your way soon.

I expected more from Larry. Even if his claims are blown up a bit, I'd have hoped a nice person wouldn't have BS'd this badly.

-Silvino

[gsrev]

No comment.. but my eyes sure do hurt after all that reading

[Sheepdog]

I think its 450hp at the crank with 75shot nos. There was another post of that a few few months ago. Remember 17PSI a lot of boost, lets just say you get 10psi per pound of boost. you get 170hp increase. Okay okay, you say that its not as hot as before. Well, looks its got a 75shot NOS to cool shit down. So gaining 280hp is not all that hard.

Like I have been saying long ass time ago, how do you know if the modify JRSC is worth is when they equip it back with the 3inch pulley.

Also I dont know if you all recall, but 11psiGSR said something about Larry telling him to try to tune his car with the butt dyno??

I am guess that is how Larry dyno tune his shit.

1) Butt Dyno
2) Sniff in exhaust (nose) to determine a/f ratio.
3) Finger on end of fuel line to determine fuel pressure.
4) Drive up hill to determine torque.
5) blows air out of his ass for benchflow testing.

Am I missing anything else guys?

Also, he bans people that does not agree with him at his message board. Why do you think he does that? He does that so the brainwashed followers does not have a chance to look at reality. That and because if you dont agree with him, you are not his ideal cult material. LOL

[The LS Avenger]

I have been watching all of this with great interest, and will offer my comments if anyone cares.

On a smaller scale, my experience ran parallel to 11PSIGSR's. I was sooo psyched to discover I could get the M62 blower for my B18b, when all along it was preordained that I would be stuck with a M45. So I went and ordered the TypeR kit, shipped it off to Endyn, and $200 later it came back (along with the Bosch pump and a J&S).

Just to qualify all of this, I was (and continue to be, although Im learning) a total neophyte to this. My situation was not helped by having an installer 2.5 hours away (6 round trip realistically) who claimed all sorts of credentials including a string of JRSC installs. And to his credit, TOO was very supportive initially in phone calls and email, despite my obvious ignorance to the topic.

So lets get to the chase: The TypeR blower bolted right up, nice machine work (and reversible !) but the installer hits a few snags. Stupid things, but they dragged out the install, did nothing to improve my dealings with my installer, and drove up the cost. Needed to get a Type R throttle cable, FPR, and different belts (obvious, but what size ?). None of this was mentioned. My installer was unable/unwilling to do the Bosch pump, so that had to go back and be replaced with the Walbro 342. TOO graciously took it back, although I suspect this was the begining of the end (more on this later).

Also, at one point got a zinger of an email from Dug (Doug ?) saying how I should shut up and tell the truth about Endyn. All along I explained to anyone who read above a 5th grade level that I was only getting the manifold rework, not the infamous blower rework. It was quite a shock, but I glossed over it... more power was coming !!

So, so far going with the TypeR kit vs the LS kit has cost me over $500, factoring in the machine work, shipping, extra parts, and labor. Im already stressed the hell out, but it will be all worth it, because I have a M62, right ? Should be as good as a GSR, at least up to 6800 RPM, right ? Forgot to mention, did a pulley swap to 4.0" down from the 4.2" that came with TypeR originally.

Well, the dyno told otherwise. 147 whp and 140 trq, with AEM intake and stock exhaust. Not much better than the M45 kit ! WTF !! Email TOO, says I gotta get a exhaust to make it breathe better, I can see the logic in that. Also got a zinger of a comment about not being honest and using the 4.0" pulley. Again, I glossed over it. It's all about the dyno.

So it's more difficult than Chinese algebra to find a suitable exhaust setup for a sedan (cat, cat-back, etc) but finally get it on (Kami 2.5", CarSound 94006, USDM TypeR catback).

Come January 2001, I want to plan the "next step". Performance is OK (not great), but my gas mileage is shitty (20 MPG) and since the dyno was a disappointment (relatively speaking). I begin emailing 2-3 polite and detailed messages, spaced about a week apart. Nothing. Also wanted to get the stepper pulley, since that seemed to be the most sensible way to up the boost. Separate messages, WTB STEPPER PULLEY in the subject line, nothing. Meantime people on this board talk about getting their stuff in a few days. At this point I consider myself blacklisted. Fortunately someone one this board (who had better not come forward lest they get blacklisted too) hooked me up with one.

So whats the point here ? I was offered visions of keeping up, if not surpassing the performance of JRSC'ed GSRs and TypeRs (superior torque and gearing ?). Hasnt happened - not yet, if at all. But I have spent about $2000 more than I planned to (the above items, plus pieces for 9 psi and exhaust).

Was I naive and stupid ? Yes. Have I learned a lot, and realize there tons more to learn ? You betchya.

I may not even make 9 psi, on count of the pulley ratios on my unusual setup (yeah a boost gauge is going on soon).

I am fortunate that I have a good job, understanding friends, and not accountable to a spouse or family yet, otherwise Id be a lot more pissed.

Keeping my fingers crossed for the upgrade...



------------------
total sleeper
JRSC M62 @ 6psi, Kamikaze + 2.5" cat-back, J&S Classic, T.O.O catch can, etc.
10 psi coming soon

[zip]

Did you guy's read what happen to our fellow member 11psiGSR? He got royally screwed:

Originally posted by 11psiGSR <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>

Up until this point, I have totally avoided any comments, reguardless of how frustrating it was. But with this post, I feel I must say something. I am sure this will probably be erased very soon.

For those of you who do not know me, let me give you a quick background. First off I am not some "young punk kid" trying to stir up a pot. I am 25+, married, own my own home, and work as a professional sales trainer. When I have a chance, I spend my weekends tinkering with my car, like most of you. I say this only to establish credibility. Please do not flame what I am about to tell you. I only hope to prevent others from what I have experienced, and nothing more.

In July of last year I contacted ENDYN about rebuilding my B18C1 from my Integra. I had spoken to many other engine builders, and was presently suprised to speak with TOO. He seemed very knowledgable about Honda's, and vehicles in general. He spoke of his involvement in NASCAR, among other racing orginizations. He spoke of his shop, and made reference to 40+ engine dyno's, some of which had motors on them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I was confident in his abilities, and decided that even though this was well over my preconcieved budget, I would go with his services.

On September 22nd, 2000, I drove the 12 hour trip to ENDYN's home base (out of respect, I
will not say where they are), with my best friend, and "crew chief" Jason. We arranged to meet with him at his house. I was a little curious as to why he would have me meet him at his house, but I had confidence at this point, so I did not let it concern me. We met on the morning of Saturday, the 23rd at approximatley 9am. I was "giddy as a school girl" to meet Larry. I was expecting to follow him to his shop, but instead he wanted me to offload the motor there at his house, stating they would load it into another truck later and take it to the shop. When I asked why we were not going to the shop, he stated "I do alot of top secret work for racing teams. As part of my agreement, I am not allowed to bring anyone to the shop, so that their privacy is protected". I was dissapointed, but understood the merit behind it. We went over the financials, he told me he expected to have the motor done on 10/31, I gave him a little over a 50% deposit, and after our fairly short (2 hour or so visit), my buddy and I were back on our way home.

Over the next month or so we stayed in contact about once a week. Towards the end of October it was becoming apparent that the motor would not be completed. Although it was dissapointing, I was not upset. A week before Thanksgiving I recieved a phone call from TOO asking if he could keep it for a week or two longer to dyno tune the motor, and break it in for me. I excitedly agreed, although I was dissapointed that it would not be ready for several more weeks. Later that month TOO told me my motor did 319hp @ 7000 rpm. He wanted to tinker around and find his goal of around 350hp. I agreed, yet again.

Around the first week of December I was beginning to become frustrated, although I promised myself I would hold it inside because he seemed to be doing so much for me. Finally on December 13th, he called and said it was ready. Although he had not reached his goal of 350hp... He said he did reach 345hp, which I was happy with.

Rather than having the motor shipped (which would have taken about a week) I decided to drive back to ENDYN and make the 12 hour one way trip, this time with a different friend. We met with TOO on December 14th at about 1:00pm in the afternoon, once again at his house. When we arrived, the motor was already out front, crated and waiting on us.

Here is where things start to get uneasy. We talked for several minutes about different things here and there. TOO and I went inside the house so that I may pay the balance that was owed to him. To my surprise there wer 2 items that were added to the motor that we had not agreed upon. In fact, one of which we never discussed. Period. The items totalled about $1200 more than I was expecting, on top of an already $7000+ bill. I was very, very upset, although I did not express much of this to him. He claimed I told him to add them. Believe me when I say, I would remember
adding an additional $1200 to a bill.... Wouldn't you? Luckily I have a very understanding wife, and although she was quite displeased, I was between a rock and a hard place. I am 12hours from home, and it would have been a major project for the motor to be uncrated, and to remove the items (Clutchmasters flywheel and Moroso oil pan). So I gave in, accepted the bill, and loaded up the motor for the drive home. Still very upset. We arrived back home on Friday, December 15th. That weekend my friends and I reinstalled the motor back into the car. Here it was, time for the cermonial "turning of the key". Remember how nervous you were? So was I. After a couple of tries, she fired up for about 3 seconds, at which point the timing belt flew off. My heart stopped. OMG! I was imagining bent valves, and other scary thoughts. I called TOO immediately. He gave
me a few quick tips. We slid the belt back on, checked for tension, and tried again. 5 seconds later, it slipped off again. Long story short, the motor ended up having an incorrect water pump.A water pump from an RS/LS motor to be exact. Apparently these have 3 less teeth on them, which would not allow the timing belt to tension properly. Although TOO did help diagnose the problem,
I was curious as to how this "slipped" (no pun intended) by him, especially considering that motor supposedly spent 10 hours on the engine dyno. When asked he stated he had decided to put a new timing belt and water pump on after it spent time on the dyno, and one of his shop flunkies must have put the wrong pump back on. He overnighted me another water pump. When it arrived, I placed it on the car. It began leaking immediatley after coolant was put in. I ended up going to Honda and buying a new one, even though the one I had originally put on the motor, only had about 6k miles on it. All told this ordeal took almost a month to overcome.

Once the water pump issue was fixed, we then had a HUGE driveability issue. The car was highly unreliable and would not maintain idle. After many phone sessions, TOO decided I needed to purchase a new FPR. I went with the Vortech SFMU, since he had the same one, thinking it would make our tuning sessions easier. After another month or so of tuning on the weeknds, it seemed we were getting nowhere. The car was sluggish. It was far slower than it was before, and much less reliable. We spent till March of this year tinkering with it on the weekends. TOO was
beginning to become less and less accesible, and semed more and more frustrated with me.

I decided that a phone conference was in order. I was respectful of how busy TOO was during theday, so I arranged a time, which he chose, on an evening were my best friend and I could discuss things together. I was prepared with very detailed notes about what we had done to the car, settings, etc. I also came prepared with any changes we had made, and their affect on the vehicles performance. While on the phone with TOO, I took copious notes. Making sure every detail was not missed. (Hey, it had been 4 months since I had the motor back... this was getting old). During this conversation he also spoke of his shop, yet again. He talked of how he spent so much time there, he had a room above in a loft with a shower so he would not have to make the drive home. He even went into details about how cold it was, and how he was so excited to have heat in there finally. We spoke of his ties with NASCAR, and the unfortunate Dale Earnhardt tragedy. He told stories of how much testing he has done over the years and how many of his dyno's run constantly for his research. Overall Jason and I spent well over an hour and a half with TOO on the phone.

We went back to the car and began looking in the areas TOO recommended. To my surprise we
found something we had not expected. My exhaust was a measly 1 7/8 in diameter. Not nearly sufficient enough for the 15lbs of boost we were running, TOO agreed.... Laughingly. I contacted him several weeks later to order a Thermal 3" exhaust from him. He quoted me a price, and stated that it would arrive in one week. The next Tuesday I phoned TOO to confirm the order. My best friend was going to schedule time off work to help, so I wanted to ensure it would arrive by Friday. Once again, he confirmed it. Something did not seem right, but I ignored it yet again.

On Thursday evening I decided I wanted my mother to stop by and make sure the exhaust was put in the garage, the last thing I needed was it to turn up missing. Rather than bother TOO, I decided to call Thermal to get the UPS tracking number. When I phoned them, they said they had no record of the order. In fact TOO had not ordered anyhting from them in quite a while. I was highly upset. He was obviously lying to me. I tried to phone him that evening, but here was never an answer.

The next day, I phoned several times until I finally got him about 1pm. I explained the situation VERY camly, and did not express that I was upset. I told him there must have been a mishap, and asked if he would phone them to straigten it out. He agreed.

Within 5 minutes he called back. He stated they had sent the exhaust to his address, and not mine. I found this odd as well, especially considering the gentleman at Thermal stated ENDYN had "not ordered anything from them in quite some time". But before I could reply, TOO stated that I "Had
broken the golden rule".... At first I thought he was joking. I laughingly replied.... "What golden rule is that?". TOO exclaimed "You sre to never call the manufacter!". I apoligized, and explained to
him I was unaware of this "rule". The only thing we had agreed upon was that I would not release pricing thaqt he had given me... which I had not.

At this point he turned ugly. He began swearing. "F*CK this! D@mn you that! You F*ucking kids in Honda's! I havent slept in 24 hours, I have restrictor plates that need to be ready for Talladega..." This continued for about 30-45 seconds. My wife was in my office at the time, and could hear everyword he was yelling. I said nothing. Not one word. Then CLICK. He hung up. My wife looked at my face, she could tell I was upset... and needless to say, so was she. I camly picked up the phone and called him back. I said TOO "I would really like to talk to you about
this". He started in again. Yelling obscenities, screaming hollering. Would not let me say a thing.

Finally I hung up. I was crushed at first. I had spent over $10k with this guy, and he does this. For what? Nothing. That was the last phone conversation I had with him.

So..... Where am I today? I have a car that is no better than it was before. It is sluggish. Even after $10k+. This is including the TOO supercharger modifications, to which I can tell no difference. The guy who built the motor claimed he has this huge shop with 40+ dyno's. Now he tells everyone "All Endyn engineering, testing, fabrication, and manufacturing has always been done in my house and it's been that way for 27 years. Any buildings that have "supposedly" housed Endyn facilities were and are purely figments of others imaginations." Well TOO... it's a figment because that is what you are telling people. I believed you, and now I feel like a fool. So where are all these dyno's? How aout the stories about NASCAR? How about the room you told us you built above the shop, just so you would not have to drive home?

If I had been told the truth up front, you would not see this post. I would not have cared that my motor was built in somebody's back yard. But I was lied to. Just like many others. I have spent $10k+ of my hard earned money, and was given a promise of a motor that had 345hp. To his date, I have yet to see that power.

If you feel you have been a victim of fraudulent representation you have many legal rights. See http://www.ifccfbi.gov

Thank you for your time.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Mods

[Sheepdog]

How does anyone of you feel about it now? Still Endyn Larry believer? SUCKERS...........

I feel for 11psiGSR, I too have been a victim of motor rebuild scam. sigh....... But at least I got the beat the crap out of the guy who built my motor.

[90teg]

This is sad that the average "hotrodder" is getting burned by Larry and ENDYN just
because they do not know how to make the most of their products.

I was burned by Larry ever since I tried to get more information about his supercharger than was posted on the web site. I let them know how rude and basically how much of an
ASSHOLE ENDYN can be just because I asked a couple of questions about the sc
kit???

I posted about 3 months ago what I felt about Larry and his *strange* attitude on how he deals with us import racers. Larry is kind of like a Dr.Jykle/Mr.Hyde of sorts and that it takes a LOT to get on his good side but VERY very little to piss him off. I give him slack based on his cancer but he still is *EVIL* in my own book. If you just buy his products that are available and somehow get his headwork you are fortunate but otherwise stepping into other territory is *VERY* risky.

I thought all this time people with the whole ENDYN setup were keeping the track times and dyno #'s their secret so they can be on top of the competition but after the past week of all the horror stories I fully understand why there is only Atomic's not so impressive figures.

One final *fact* is Larry is opened minded to technology but when it comes to people he is very sexist and discriminatory. I don't know if it's because of growing up in Texas that had/has a history of racism or that he believes him and his dad are some kind of superhuman. I give him much credit for his
profile and acomplishments (if they are true), such as sponsoring NIRA and the free
advice on his web site, but on a person to person basis he is too old fashioned and
treats us like we don't know "shit from shinola". It's a dam shame that some grumpy old man can't get along with us younger car heads unless you regergitate every single advice on his site and praise him as if he were the automotive god!!

[randomwalk101]

If it is indeed a scam, he must be one damn good one! I've always "heard" of what his mods can do...but NEVER..ever any proof. If he is so good at what he does, why doesn't he show some proof to the world..it would only make him looks better. On the other hand, I must say TOO knows his shit...I learned a lot of him as far as tuning tips etc...

Anyhow, if you're a hard core believer, all I have to say is don't be so myopic in what you see...have an open mind and use your judgement. After all, it's your money that you're sending out...not mine.

[JG Luder]

Good Lord. This really has made it to every nook and cranny of the net. ENDYNE is a fraud.... food for thought. I may not believe it, but I won't do business with him because of it. It's not worth risking my money.

[Holden]

I bet Stroker and Beaver (old HB posters who were major assholes) were really Larry.

Greg