LX=EX???

[SuperJay]

I wanna do the brake upgrade but here in Canada we never got the 88-91 EX model, I was wondering if they're the same as a 88-91 LX. What size brakes are on the LX? Can I use those steering knuckles? Thanx

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Self improvement is masterbation, self destruction is the answer

[civic4g]

From what I remember my boyfriend telling me when we were thinking of doing the brake conversion the LX and EX had Different brakes. Of course, EX's were better.

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[NC_Rex]

EX has integra sized front brakes...but same drums the lx has. Only CRX Si 90-91 had rear discs...same goes for integra models.

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[SuperJay]

Dude, what are you talkiing about, there are no steering knuckles on the rear discs and I already got the rear discs taken care of. I was enquiring about the front brakes if it was not previously stated.

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Self improvement is masterbation, self destruction is the answer

[NC_Rex]

Don't get stupid with me!

Do what you want...good luck finding an EX...ever think of the larger correct-sized master cylinder for the larger front brakes? and proportioner for the rear discs? ....or the correct e-brake cables while your at it ace?

[This message has been edited by NC_Rex (edited November 29, 2001).]

[NC_Rex]

Let's jsut put it this way...you have 5 choices for front disc upgrade:

FRONTS

1) Aftermarket Kit - Calipers, Pistons, Caliper Adaptor, Hardware on stock knuckles.
2) Fastbrake Upgrade with use of Teg Calipers on stock knuckles.
3) Prelude Rotors Redrilled to 4x100 PCD with Caliper Adaptor and Integra or Prelude Calipers. A guy on this post just replied about this post about 1.5 weeks ago.
4) 90-93 Integra Stock Knuckles - however interfere's with fenders according to someone unless you get the camber correction kit.
5) 90-91 Civic EX Sedan Knuckles - fit right on.

REARS

1) Rear Disc Upgrade from an Aftermarket Source...complete replacement...spindle swap.
2) Rear Discs and Traling Arms from Integra or CRX.
3) Kevlar Drum Pads

.
Now what I was saying earlier about the rears...your either A or B below:

A: CRX
B: Civic HB or Sedan

A:
..requires 90-91 CRX Si E-brake cable.

B:
..requires the 90-93 Integra Any Model E-brake cable.

.
Regarding the Trailing Arms with Disc Brakes that you use:
90-91 CRX Si....has a smaller sized Center Trailing Arm Link Bushing.
90-93 Integra Any Model....has a larger sized Center Trailing Arm Link Bushing.

...be aware of this when you order from Energy Suspension....you WILL want to replace thing...it makes your rear suspension flopa round alot and tightens up the rear like a larger sway bar if you do...less travel on the suspension members.

.
Regarding the Larger 90-93 Integra and 90-91 Civic EX Front Disc Brakes.

..the reason you need to use the larger master cylinder is because the forward caliper cylinders pistons are larger in diameter and these slave cylinders pistons being larger than your stock caliper slave pistons are in ratio with the back pistons as well. So the valve proportioner is needed when you make the upgrade also. The difference in the Master Cylinder from stock to EX and Integra is a 1/8" larger cylinder piston. 13/16=stock, 15/16=EX/Teg...it's marked on the side.

..If you do not use these...you will notice a lot more brake pedal travel to the floor to get the brakes to stop if you don't use this.

Note on swapping the larger Master Cylidner and Booster into the DX/LX/Base Models. You will have to remove the intake manifold.....or do the creative number I had to on a CRX DX. And that was to remove all botls from the passenger, front and rear motor mounts and jack the engine upward to clear the EACV on the DX Manifold. It's that much fo a pain!

Note on Swapping parts between Master Cylinder and Booster - DON'T DO IT!! Use them as a set...if you buy, buy together and use together....you'll see what I mean otherwise. Plus the manifold pressure assisted booster is in ratio with the cylinder...too little and the brakes will be very hard even if you got it to work.

Note on the 88-91 Prelude Master Cylinders and the 92-95 Civic Sedan Master Cylinders. They are the same specs as the 90-91 Civic EX and 90-93 Integra Models. Only difference is the Prelude Master Cylinder has the forward line postioned a little lower. I corrected this by bending the line around a pipe just a bit...didn't take very little at all and it lines right up with no clearance problems at all. I have pictures if nobody believes me on the CRX DX....the CRX Si has the Integra Setup.

Note on DOT4 Fluid.
...Off the shelf is great! Don't think you have to get anything more. Your brakes will be strong as hell! Actually Ford Motorcraft DOT3 spec fluid is jsut as good as top-rated DOT4.

Note on DOT5 Fluid.
...Don't use it...use 5.1 Instead. 5.0 is almost pure silicone and eats seals very quickly.

Note on DX Rear Trailing Arms and Bleeding Procedure.
....SNAPPPP!!! hahaha...told you you should have upgraded to rear discs! Trial and Error for me too. The Rear Bleeder valves on Drum Brakes are 8mmm...and they crust up really bad. Usually they crack right the hell off. So you'll never be able to bleed the brakes. Think I'm kidding, give it a shot. I'd use a steel wire brush, pentrating oil, a lighter to heat it up....and a short socket 8mm with a long handle and move slowly. I've had this happen once....and never again. Rear Discs have 10mm bleeder valves. Why the difference? It's a Honda thing like everything else...who the Fvck knows?

Note on E-Brake Cables.
...Range in price from $85-105 from Honda. Try Manchester Honda...they are a dealership that undersells all others. You will find it usually a lot cheaper there. They have catalogs and are also online.

Note on teflon brake lines.
...buy neuspeed or goodrich...don't bother with the others. Neuspeeds are yellow, goodrich are clear. Lines are needed if your running alot of brake pressure, constantly stretching old lines. Not always crucial to have for an older car, but recommended.

Note on Bleeding. Buy 1 quart of Fluid. You Want to add and bleed the further caliper first....just bleed it till all the crap and scum comes out....then work to the shortest distance one. Then take of the master cylinder resevoir...spray it out with brake cleaner, wipe it down and put it back on...fill back up and your good to go. Might want to cycle through a few pumps on each caliper one last time...I always do.

I haven't written a book like this in a while, call it Chapter Brake Upgrade.

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[NC_Rex]

If your looking for used parts, this is their general price:

Larger Master Cylinder and Booster Set - $40-50

Integra or CRX Rear Trailing Arms complete with E-brake Cables - $200-250

Front Knuckles Complete with Rotors and Calipers - $50 to $100

...
Energy Suspension Rear Center Trailing Arm Bushing is $35 for the set.

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[SuperJay]

Told you I already got the rear discs including the P-valve installed. Just picked up an MC yesterday and putting it in tonight. Please don't spank me or nothin, but I didn't need to read 10 minutes worth of crap you copied and pasted, To sum up my original question (and I'll make it really simple for ya) Are the knuckles on a CDN LX the same as the knuckles on an American EX. The answer is "no" so drop it. Gonna use teg knuckles. One last question NC, are you a licensed mechanic? If not, maybe you should swallow a little bit of pride and try not to think you know everything about cars. I am a licensed maechanic, and I absolutely hate it when guys think they know everything about cars but aren't actual mechanics. Thanx for lettin me exercise my freedom of speech.

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Self improvement is masterbation, self destruction is the answer

[chris B]

ok...ok i am sorry but i have to say i have read a few things on here and damn superjay you are an asshole (my freedon of speech) you ask for help and you get it and you have to be a dick about it!!! there is no need!!!

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