604's are back they sound great.

[voice of the theater]

I don't think so
I was thinking the same thing. Cradledorf those original cabs are nice "Absolutely Nothing Wrong With Them" you don't need to keep building new ones.I read that post over at LH who cares about his opinion, know why, because it's "Not Yours" if they look and sound good to you that's all that's important.

I actually like the way they (Originals) look Vintage !! :2thumbsup:

I agree--those are really nice looking vintage cabinets and yours look to be in good shape. People pay big bucks for antiques that often times don't have half the character or craftsmanship that those do. BTW, I just read the post AB mentioned over at LH, and the guy over there is entitled to his opinion but keep in mind the Valencias (which the AS-101 and Flamenco cabinets are a slight variation of--almost identical dimensions and tuning, with a beautiful wood grain style) are probably the most popular speakers/cabinets (housing a 15" speaker) that Altec ever sold. More Valencias (not even counting all the variants/Valencia style speakers/cabinets) sold than Model 19's for example--the Valencias were in production around 15 years until the mid 70's (some of the early ones were called Iconics but they WERE essentially Valencias) and they kept building AS-101's for a few years after that as well. So that basic cabinet shape/dimension/style/tuning was in production in one form or another for at least 20 years (ball park figure). I would hardly say that no one would want those cabinets like the guy over at LH said--that's his opinion and hopefully he'd be the first to admit it's no more valid than anyone else's opinion--it's certainly not a fact. Maybe since there weren't many Valencia style speakers/cabinets with a baffle/tuning to accommodate a duplex speaker -- the demand for that particular cabinet might be lower than a standard Valencia/Flamenco/AS-101, but that has nothing to do with the appearance or the sound of the cabinet--just that it's baffle is made for a duplex instead of a 416 woofer and an 806 driver/811B horn (and I wouldn't be surprised if your newly restored duplexes sound better than many 416/806/811B combos out there). Here's a few examples on ebay today of how popular these Valencia speakers/cabs are and they're always being bought and sold every day of the week on ebay, audiogon, craigslist, etc.

Here's a pair with a $2450.00 Buy it Now price--steep but I've seen them sell for more especially to the Asian market....

Vintage Altec Voice of the theater Valencia speakers - eBay (item 230564781424 end time Jan-16-11 18:12:07 PST)

This pair has a $1400 Buy It Now

ALTEC VALENCIA - eBay (item 110628625860 end time Jan-02-11 12:29:07 PST)

$1200 B.I.N.
Altec Valencia 846A speakers - eBay (item 170584006385 end time Jan-06-11 18:40:16 PST)

$995 B.I.N.
Vintage Altec Valencia 846u speakers - eBay (item 190479659538 end time Jan-11-11 18:33:07 PST)

I'm not saying that's what your speakers are worth--just giving you an example that it's pretty far fetched to say that no one would want those cabinets--Valencias/Flamencos/AS-101's have GREAT sounding cabinets which is why they're so popular and were being manufactured in one variation or another for 20 years.....

If anything, it wouldn't surprise me if your newly restored drivers in those original cabs sound BETTER than any of the four pairs I just listed....

.........My main thing I use these for is Home theater and all I can remember is how awesome they sounded in the cabinets they came in even though the E had a problem. Thanks for spending your time helping me buddy.

If they sounded that good before you had the drivers restored, imagine how those cabs will sing now......

.....to lift them the amount I had to they would have looked really awkward, plus I don't have a very big room 11x 22 so they were really too wide for that to be practical.

I toyed with the idea of building risers for my Valencias and my AS 101's (yes, I owned a pair of each) and decided to prop up the fronts of them instead. Some may frown on this idea, but there is also the argument that they may get better bass response being on the floor with the fronts propped up compared to being on a riser 2-3 feet off of the floor--depending on the acoustics of your room of course. My Valencias and AS-101's got GREAT bass response in their original factory cabinets sitting directly on the floor with the fronts propped up to aim the sound up to ear level while they sat on the floor......

AS 101's with fronts propped up (click for full size).....


Valencias with fronts propped up....


In the second pic, I had to prop the fronts of the Valencias up quite a bit because they were in my (in home) recording studio and my band stands up when we were using the speakers. In the first pic, I only had to prop up the fronts of the AS-101's a relatively small amount to aim the sound up to ear level for people listening while sitting on the couch. If I still owned those speakers I'd prop their fronts up with something nicer looking than VHS tapes! :doh: BTW, my living room is actually not much bigger than your listening room and I made room for a piano, two AS 101's, TV, couch, love seat, etc. and they sounded phenomenal in that room (and even my wife--who's "picky" about furniture--loved how they looked in that room with the baby grand piano),,,,,,

You get the idea, I can't recommend enough (or maybe I'm recommending too much!?) that you try those drivers in the original cabs and be prepared to be surprised.....

[cradeldorf]

I take it you didn't sim it.

GM

You know I didn't : ) I haven't taken the time to download the program and tinker with it...although I have been gathering my data for the 604's. I was merely going on the Altec cabinet building guide where it talks about infinite baffles and the length they need to be for a 1/4 wavelength difference from the back to the front so I googled how long a 20 hz wave was and then divided it by 4 and determined the length of the channel/horn to be roughly 170 inches long.

Thanks Greg.

[cradeldorf]

Please let us know how the restored drivers sound if you swap them out into your original cabinets--you may be pleasantly surprised and decide you don't need to build any more cabinets. I used to own a pair of cabinets (Heathkit AS 101's which were manufactured/stock with Altec Valencia drivers) almost identical to your original cabs (but not "DBR") and they were fantastic sounding. Here's what they looked like (click on images for full size)--do these look familiar to you (other than the grill cloth) ?

Yep their Identical to mine, I switched the wires on my HF and the speakers sound better now but the ceiling isn't collapsing in so they have more awesomeness to be brought out in them....I almost started swapping them a few minutes ago but it's already pushing 3 am and I'm on vaca all week. I want my heart to stop beating when I wind these mama's up.

[cradeldorf]

Maybe an old question, but do you have any idea how your new cab's are tuned with those ports?

Are they custom done for 604's, or were they pre-existing?

They are home made by an idiot...who shall remain anonymous He had no idea what he was doing and I still don't. so the answer to your question is no they aren't really tuned I just kinda estimated them. : /

[cradeldorf]

I don't think so



I was thinking the same thing. Cradledorf those original cabs are nice "Absolutely Nothing Wrong With Them" you don't need to keep building new ones.I read that post over at LH who cares about his opinion, know why, because it's "Not Yours" if they look and sound good to you that's all that's important.

I actually like the way they (Originals) look Vintage !! :2thumbsup:

That's actually the reason I fell in love with them was their cool nostalgia look. I think I should give them another chance. I hate to have another set of stray cat houses sitting on my porch which I'm sure is what I'll have if I build them. :2thumbsup:

[cradeldorf]

I agree--those are really nice looking vintage cabinets and yours look to be in good shape. People pay big bucks for antiques that often times don't have half the character or craftsmanship that those do. BTW, I just read the post AB mentioned over at LH, and the guy over there is entitled to his opinion but keep in mind the Valencias (which the AS-101 and Flamenco cabinets are a slight variation of--almost identical dimensions and tuning, with a beautiful wood grain style) are probably the most popular speakers/cabinets (housing a 15" speaker) that Altec ever sold. More Valencias (not even counting all the variants/Valencia style speakers/cabinets) sold than Model 19's for example--the Valencias were in production around 15 years until the mid 70's (some of the early ones were called Iconics but they WERE essentially Valencias) and they kept building AS-101's for a few years after that as well. So that basic cabinet shape/dimension/style/tuning was in production in one form or another for at least 20 years (ball park figure). I would hardly say that no one would want those cabinets like the guy over at LH said--that's his opinion and hopefully he'd be the first to admit it's no more valid than anyone else's opinion--it's certainly not a fact. Maybe since there weren't many Valencia style speakers/cabinets with a baffle/tuning to accommodate a duplex speaker -- the demand for that particular cabinet might be lower than a standard Valencia/Flamenco/AS-101, but that has nothing to do with the appearance or the sound of the cabinet--just that it's baffle is made for a duplex instead of a 416 woofer and an 806 driver/811B horn (and I wouldn't be surprised if your newly restored duplexes sound better than many 416/806/811B combos out there). Here's a few examples on ebay today of how popular these Valencia speakers/cabs are and they're always being bought and sold every day of the week on ebay, audiogon, craigslist, etc.

Here's a pair with a $2450.00 Buy it Now price--steep but I've seen them sell for more especially to the Asian market....

Vintage Altec Voice of the theater Valencia speakers - eBay (item 230564781424 end time Jan-16-11 18:12:07 PST)

This pair has a $1400 Buy It Now

ALTEC VALENCIA - eBay (item 110628625860 end time Jan-02-11 12:29:07 PST)

$1200 B.I.N.
Altec Valencia 846A speakers - eBay (item 170584006385 end time Jan-06-11 18:40:16 PST)

$995 B.I.N.
Vintage Altec Valencia 846u speakers - eBay (item 190479659538 end time Jan-11-11 18:33:07 PST)

I'm not saying that's what your speakers are worth--just giving you an example that it's pretty far fetched to say that no one would want those cabinets--Valencias/Flamencos/AS-101's have GREAT sounding cabinets which is why they're so popular and were being manufactured in one variation or another for 20 years.....

If anything, it wouldn't surprise me if your newly restored drivers in those original cabs sound BETTER than any of the four pairs I just listed....



If they sounded that good before you had the drivers restored, imagine how those cabs will sing now......



I toyed with the idea of building risers for my Valencias and my AS 101's (yes, I owned a pair of each) and decided to prop up the fronts of them instead. Some may frown on this idea, but there is also the argument that they may get better bass response being on the floor with the fronts propped up compared to being on a riser 2-3 feet off of the floor--depending on the acoustics of your room of course. My Valencias and AS-101's got GREAT bass response in their original factory cabinets sitting directly on the floor with the fronts propped up to aim the sound up to ear level while they sat on the floor......

AS 101's with fronts propped up (click for full size).....


Valencias with fronts propped up....


In the second pic, I had to prop the fronts of the Valencias up quite a bit because they were in my (in home) recording studio and my band stands up when we were using the speakers. In the first pic, I only had to prop up the fronts of the AS-101's a relatively small amount to aim the sound up to ear level for people listening while sitting on the couch. If I still owned those speakers I'd prop their fronts up with something nicer looking than VHS tapes! :doh: BTW, my living room is actually not much bigger than your listening room and I made room for a piano, two AS 101's, TV, couch, love seat, etc. and they sounded phenomenal in that room (and even my wife--who's "picky" about furniture--loved how they looked in that room with the baby grand piano),,,,,,

You get the idea, I can't recommend enough (or maybe I'm recommending too much!?) that you try those drivers in the original cabs and be prepared to be surprised.....

I kinda like the VHS look. And your right. As peter Griffin fondly put it they may be worth a couple of thousand dollars to you, but to me their worthless. You guys have convinced me their going back in their original cabs. I was also thinking about trying the old networks with them too, you know just to see if I hear a difference between them and the GPA crossovers I bought. Thank again buddy. : )

[cradeldorf]

Ok as of 5:30 am they are back in the original cabs, the bass seems slightly deeper but the mids seem a little less powerful than they were in the black cabs. For some reason I can't go any higher than about a 1/4 volume on my Marantz after that they start sounding not so good and don't seem to get any louder. Below that they sound really nice though.....I wonder if I need more power or something newer like a denon. also the treble is cranked all the way up on the marantz to get good clarity from the HF. they were doing the same thing in the black cabs too you couldn't go beyond above 1/4 volume or they just got worse sounding.

[analog addict]

Ok as of 5:30 am they are back in the original cabs, the bass seems slightly deeper but the mids seem a little less powerful than they were in the black cabs. For some reason I can't go any higher than about a 1/4 volume on my Marantz after that they start sounding not so good and don't seem to get any louder. Below that they sound really nice though.....I wonder if I need more power or something newer like a denon. also the treble is cranked all the way up on the marantz to get good clarity from the HF. they were doing the same thing in the black cabs too you couldn't go beyond above 1/4 volume or they just got worse sounding.

What I might suggest you do is put one back in the new cabinet and leave one in the old. Then you can switch back and forth to see what sounds best.

As for your amp, it's a pretty well flogged horse, but you might want to consider tubes for your amplification. SS/transistors produce odd numbered harmonics which cuase speakers to sound "harsh", "brittle" etc. Despite having more distortion by the numbers, tubes produce even numbered harmonics, mostly 1st order if I understand correctly, which sound pleasing to the human ear.

Find a friend with a good tube amp, and have them bring it by for a demo session....:2thumbsup:

[Altec Best]

Find a friend with a good tube amp, and have them bring it by for a demo session....:2thumbsup:

If they were just serviced and they sound like that then it has to be something else.

AA has a good suggestion.Now did they sound that way before servicing ?

You just got new crossovers too correct ?

Try the old Crossover's again !

Could be a number of things.Is this a new problem or did they always sound like that ?

[cradeldorf]

If they were just serviced and they sound like that then it has to be something else.

AA has a good suggestion.Now did they sound that way before servicing ?

You just got new crossovers too correct ?

Try the old Crossover's again !

Could be a number of things.Is this a new problem or did they always sound like that ?

..........I can't remember actually I think they did sound this way... I really find it odd that these cabinets with ports that are 5" tall and 17" wide is the proper port size for this enclosure seems way to big. I know I didn't have to turn the treble knob all the way up before so I think the crossovers are the culprit there. I think Analog Addict was right I should have switched one and the listened to them both. Maybe I should hook Optimus prime back up to them, I think it's rated at 90 watts where the Marantz is only 16.... Also I stuck with my wiring the HF backwards which at low volume seems to make the HF stick out better and it sounds clearer but at higher speed it sounds horrible kind of an out of phasey sound. also this dry weather kinda tightened the cabs so much it's really hard to get the backs off, I should splurge a couple of bucks and buy some drawer pulls for them.