604-8K

[cholt]

So Steven, how is the Iconic 704 8k different/superior to the Altec 604 8k? Is it the parts/materials (cones, coils, x over), the manufacturing process/QC/reliability, superior engineering, or the sonic performance? Please let us know your thoughts once that blinded 704/604 comparison is done in that "practical" listening environment. Curt

[Steve Burger]

I'll let Jim D. describe the technical improvements. But the other aspects mentioned- reliability QA, etc: From my conversations with contractors that were dealing with products from that era- especially just prior to and after the move from Anaheim to Oklahoma, there were a lot of problems with what was coming out of the plant. Quality assurance had apparantly suffered a great deal. I'll let some more in the know elaborate.

[Todd W. White]

The Iconic Model 704-8A Compound Loudspeaker is both a serious advancement forward and a reaching back into the glory years - the result is a two-way loudspeaker system that has the advantages of modern materials and methods of manufacture coupled with the performance of the 604-8G and 604-8H.

You see, during the years EV owned Altec Lansing (after the move to OKC), they forced Altec to standardize on a few magents, rather than the large number Altec was using. The early, Anaheim K's were actually quite good - almost as good as the "H"....but the change to a different magent hurt it a lot.

In the case of the 604-8K, they ended up using the magnet from the 515-G series, which was much larger than the earlier one used on the "K". This increased the flux density in the gap, but it also made the" "K" much more efficient - especially in the mid-band. The apparent result to the human ear was that the 604-8K didn't have much bass response, when, in reality, it hadn't changed - only the mid-band came up, and when it did, it created the perception that the "K" was "bass shy".

When reviewing the performance of the 704-8A for us, Jerry Hubbard discovered this problem, and designed new metal top and bottom plates to compensate for the larger magnet and get the unruly mid-band back under control.

The result?

Now we have a speaker that perfoms almost - if not exactly - like the "H", but with greater efficiency, too! At 4.87%, it is the most efficient 16" two-way of it's type ever built, as far we know - it's certainly more efficient than any Altec ever built. Not only that, but the "H" had the Mantaray horn - a vast improvement over the horn used in the C-G series, and the 704-8A has it, too!

We think the 704 will rival, if not overtake, the 604-8G in popularity...

A pair will be playing at the Great Plains AudioFest tomorrow (only) in Tulsa... I'll let you folks know how they sound...

[joyspring]

Hi all,

Though the Altec 604-8Ks in this particular Ebay auction are indeed in excellent condition, I'll have to agree with Steve Burger and Todd.

The final Anaheim product was dodgy (an understatement), even the 604-8K. Have a look at UREI (and now JBL) engineer Garry Margolis has to say about the 604-8K (near the end of the page, after Don McR's remarks) as an OEM component of the UREI Time-Align monitors:

I wouldn't characterize our move to a proprietary coax as reluctant. We were very relieved to get away from the 604. The problems included poor assembly -- a high percentage of rubs/buzzes and DOAs. We were rejecting 24 of 25 units at incoming QC inspection. We became a warranty service facility so that we could repair them ourselves and be reimbursed rather than totally screw up our production and shipping of the Time Aligns.

The PAS LF driver was designed to our specs in close collaboration with them -- PAS was very cooperative and helpful, and production units gave us no difficulty. The HF was a JBL 2426, and was also very reliable.

(emphasis added)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Original URL: [DIY] Altec 604's? they're back (!)

Considering that the 1970s Altec product suffered from quality assurance problems but were far more refined than the older 1950s/60s 604s, then the best Anaheim Altec 604s were those cherry-picked OEM units used in the UREI Time-Align(tm) series Altec Fan should be please to hear this ;-)

Todd:

Many thanks for elucidating that black hole area of Altec 604-8K history...

The 604-8K specifications I have are those from OK, with the incorrect Thiele-Small parameters. IIRC, the OK 604-8Ks have the following magnetic structure specifications:

Magnet weight: 5.6# LF, 2.5# HF
Voice coil gap flux density: 1.3 Tesla LF, 1.6 Tesla HF

Do you (or does anybody) have the pre-EV/Mark IV/OK Anaheim Altec 604-8K magnetic structure specifications?

Steve Burger:

US$715 end-user price??? Is this a misprint??? If not, then these are an absolute bargain! When will they be shipping?

IMHO, provided Iconic/GPA has appreciably improved the product and has modern standards for quality assurance - and that Steve Burger's price quote is indeed correct ;-) - the Iconic 704-8A will definitely be the logical route for those seeking Altec (now Iconic) Duplex, err..., Compound loudspeakers IMHO.

BobR

[Todd W. White]

The T/S's for the corrected 704-8A are:

Xmax (inch) = 0.20
Re (ohms) = 6.80
Vd (cu. in.) = 19.20
Fs (Hz)= 30.90
Vas (cu. ft.) = 16.35
Ref. Eff (%) = 4.87
Qts = 0.261
Qms = 8.49
Qes = 0.270
Vid (cu. ft.) = 0.24

Incidentally, these improvements and T/S's are exclusive to the ICONIC Model 704-8A - the 604-8L off by ALPro is NOT the same speaker, nor does it share these characteristics (and it's more expensive).

[Steve Burger]

The MSRP is $1072. At this point however we have a very small infrastucture and only distributing through direct internet generated sales. Because of this lack of overhead and a need to establish sales we are offering the end user price at $715.50 (I understated it by 50 cents). This does not include the crossover. Yes it is a bargain- for now. I don't perceive us being able to offer it for this price for very long. We do not have many in stock but they can be built very quickly so the turnaround time should not be more than 2 weeks. Steve

[Altec19]

Hi BobR!

. . . the best Anaheim Altec 604s were those cherry-picked OEM units used in the UREI Time-Align(tm) series Altec Fan should be please to hear this ;-)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think I dimly recall this but your added reinforcement just gives me the warm fuzzies!

Later . . .

[Adhoc]

Steve Burger, "What's the big deal?". -I agree with you in full. I put the Iconic 704-8A on my check up list in late February, put them on my purchase list in early March after I got a quote from Todd W for USD 700 + "something" / pcs.

If one trusts paper specs, I considered the Iconics 704 as a step forward compared to the Altec 604-8K. That's why I limited my offer to 15 000 SEK / 2083 USD. For me, in Europe, 3 pcs Iconic 704 would be USD 3x715:- + about 500:- shipping + 25% customs/tax = total about 3300 USD. So, one can say I personally got them at good price, with the crossovers for free as a bonus, but it wasn't the bargain of a life time. For you guys, in the US, it would not have the same good deal. For you, the Iconic 704-8A ought to be the 1st choice, it seems to be a bargain any day. -You don't have to consider such heavy freight costs and customs/taxes.

I'll give whatever little help I can, to promote the Iconic in Swedish forums. Todd et al certainly deserves it. I cross my fingers my 604-8K is of an early date and not one on the screvw ups mentioned above.

When I get the serial numbers, does anyone know how to decipher / date them?

For curiosity Steve, the crossovers for the 704-8A's do you have a price for those. - I still havn't got a price. I will probably use some Rane active filters, so I may not have a use for them but if I get questions from others about it, it would be good to know.

About Ebay; I got that confirmation e-mail from them yesterday 16:32. 3 days for a confimation! They must have switched to steam powered computers, fed with wet wood. 'Would have given me some 45 minutes to bid, if I had noticed it right away.

You guys who got angry about how the auction ended. When I finally, through my friend, got in phone contact with the seller I simply stated: I can't officially bid on the net but my final bid will be 15000 SEK. At that time it was up over 1700 USD with 1 day to go. He could probably have gotten more than my 2083 USD by just letting it run for another day. You who wanted them, go for the Iconics instead. It's only pocket money in price difference for you and you probably get a better speaker element as well.

[Adhoc]

I got them home, and yes they are right out of the box, never used, the brownish glue for the cone still sticky(!).

So, now which time period are these 604-8K from? Some of the comments above gave rise to worries. Also when I check some links on the alteclansingunofficial page I find contradictory specifications for 604-8K so more question marks pop up.

http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet...04-8K-Data.pdf says in the first pages Fs=24 Hz, Vas=18 cu ft, Qts=0,9287, Qes=0,299, Qms=7,07 and frequency range 60-20kHz for a 6 cu ft vented enclosure (the accessory one 5191-X referred to as 6 cu ft, is actually 5,89 cu ft based on its given dim). In the latter pages in the same link the Fs is suddenly 30 Hz, and frequency response 20-20 kHz for a 620B enclosure which I haven?t found yet. Anyone who knows a link to it?

On this link http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet...ele-Small.html it says
Fs=28,5 Hz, Vas=14,58 cu ft, Qts=0,20, Qes=0,21, Qms=7,50. Quite different numbers compared to the 1st link?

So which figures / links are the correct ones??? Anyone got a clue?

I noted down all numbers I could find, hopefully they can be a clue and be ?deciphered? by someone.
All 3 brown boxes are printed Altec Lansing, Anaheim CA, print on all boxes: 10-02-03-397, 604-8K and then:
Box A) handwritten with ink pen 3983, control tag is stamped 071580 AL 13, a white sticker has print 5606-035096, customs label says ?Article code 604-8H? (not K => ?)
Box B) handwritten with ink pen 3276, control tag is stamped 0891(?)20 AL 13, a white sticker has print 5606-035096, customs label says ?Article code 604-8????
Box C) handwritten with ink pen 4499, control tag is missing, the white sticker too, customs label says ?Article code 604-8H? (not K => ?)

Cone number on all 3 speakers is 349991 007, serial numbers are 04499, 03983 and 04099. All 3 speakers are marked 604-8K and have the Mantaray horn
All 3 crossovers boxes has a white sticker with same number as the speaker boxes = 5606-035096 with the addition ?604-K?, ?604-8K 008? and for the last one ?019? respectively. Serial numbers are 01216, 01768 and 04175. All 3 crossovers bears a text ?For 604-8K?.

I hope these numbers are sufficient for a trace/dating, as there were no documents included with dates written in ?plain language?.

So far I have not found the difference between the 604-8H and 604-8K, besides what Todd W indicates about change of magnets giving the K-version a less good bass in comparison. I plan to use 416B+811 as left and right front speakers, and the 604-8K as centre and back speakers in a combined audio and home cinema system. So, if a "worse" bass is the actual difference between the H and K-version, it might not be that significant for me.

[Steve Burger]

We are very close to having the 704 xovers ready for production. At this point we have them for systems. I could not have believed it would take this long to have them ready but we are a very small company and all have other jobs as well so I hope everyone understands our slow progress and chalks it up as a lesson in patience.