Is it just me?

[twizzle]

Dyan, I agree totally with what you're saying. Absolutely 100%!

[wonders]maybe he just doesn't care enough anymore about his music or his fans?[/wonders] I'm not saying that to diss him but I do get the distinct impression that he doesn't really give a tiny rat's arse anymore, certainly about his online community/fanbase, f/c based or otherwise. As you say, he could do so MUCH more and the possibilities of using the internet are there for the taking.

[DarrensPassion]

Dyan, maybe, just maybe he is reluctant to say too much to the fans these days cos people automatically jump on his every word and hold him to it, whatever it is. I reckon he's sick and tired of telling people what he hopes his plans might be only to have them radically altered by powers beyond his control. If he shares too many of his thoughts about things, the fanclub is automatically inundated with hundreds of emails from people wanting verification on everything he says! I don't actually blame him for taking a few steps back these days.

I definitely agree with you about dropping out of the Sony label and using a more independent company to promote his music. That maybe easier said than done though because his contract with Sony might prevent him from doing so until he's fulfilled his contract with them. I don't know what that is but I would guess it's a 6 album deal so he's probably got 2 left to deliver with them. If he tries to cut his ties with Sony before then, the financial and legal implications for him could be so huge that it might personally ruin him.

Janie xx

[Dyan]

Janie, you may very well be right on target when it comes to why Darren doesn't do the many, many things he could be doing. As I said in another thread, I've stopped trying to understand him. *whispers* It's not fair and it's due to my experience, but too many times my gut says what Terry is saying .......... I don't think he gives a rat's a$$ at times. BUT maybe even that's understandable considering his experiences, and I'm not sure that I wouldn't feel the same in his shoes. My only point is that I can't understand that I don't have the information to understand, and all I can go on is my personal experience and what I see and know.

So the most compassionate thing that I can give him right now is the understanding that I don't have a clue what the reasons are. I only think that it's a damned shame (whatever those reasons are) because Darren is special and he has a lot to give.

As for the Sony contract, here again ........ I haven't enough information to have a clue. However, I have seen artists leave labels and the parting doesn't always have to be expensive and messy. My feeling is that it's harder to do if you're a "big" artist and thus a huge moneymaker for the label. As for Darren? It's entirely possible that there are things going on and discussions happening that we haven't a clue about.

[sharonlk]

I do wonder what the future holds, but one thought has always stuck in my mind during the whole TTATS promo thing - and that is that originally this album was meant to be a side project. So, I've always wondered how he and Rob would have marketed the album independently - if he thought that Sony would drop him, then he must have had contingency plans in place, surely? Or maybe, once they looked into the idea, they realised that it wouldn't be feasible to do it alone, especially as Sony were allegedly so enthusiastic (note the word ALLEGEDLY - I think their support has been underwhelming in the extreme).

I think I spent a lot of time discussing the whys and hows with friends, but in the end it's like banging your head against a brick wall, because, as Terry so rightly said, there is so much crap out there and Darren is far better than all of that and yet is failing. To be honest, I think he's doomed as far as Sony are concerned. I know there's been the discussion about his journal on the Sony board, and to be honest, I wonder what he would have to say... I mean, he could be all happy and jolly and pretend everything is hunky-dory, but I think the last few years taught him that 1) Many fans can see through him when he's faking and 2) They don't take kindly to bullshitting, and would prefter honesty...but unfortunately 3) There are also a section of the fanbase that would rather bury their heads in the sand and pretend all is happy and joyful...how can you reconcile both of these things and keep everyone happy! I guess he tried that and didn't like it. He felt like a fake.

I would love more discussions too, Kat, about anything...just because I do love coming on-line and chatting with people. It's the only time I get to have interesting discussions usually, as the rest of the time like anyone else, I'm too busy running the rest of mine and the kids' lives!

[Kattitude]

I agree Dyan. I dont think its a bad tactic to go the club route and dance type gigs. NOt everyone has to sell out 50,000 seat concerts to be a success.

I was more thinking its a shame for him and GM if they both feel that they given everything and it wasnt good enough anymore esp to Sony. I think he should get out from Sony and hopefully he will. UNless as you say there are things happening we dont know about. Maybe sony are supporting him maybe he feels at ease with his relationship with them. They may of allowed TTATS through even though it wasnt what they personally wanted.

I agree that he must have heaps to say. He must have thoughts on doing these club gigs. On how TTATS is going. On the world and love and life and everythng else. I think as Sharon said it may be hard to reconcile. I mean when posting on a fan orientiated journal the perception is that should be a happy little postive story. What if hes feeling pissed off about TTATS. What if he doesnt want to fake that things could get better type speech and all is well. I for one dont care if he spoke and it was deemed completly negative. But I guess many fans dont want a journall entry that says no more touring and Im jack of this industry.

I also agree with Terry he got a bit of a dont give a rats ass about it all now. At first its fun and inspiring and great to know what fans think. After years of it you lose interest and develop other interests and step back from what fans think.

Kat

[DarrensPassion]

I think possibly one reason why Sony won't support him over TTATS is because when Darren wrote and produced the thing, by the time Sony knew of it, it was a fait accompli! Darren didn't want Sony's input on it on any level as he deemed it his personal creation and his alone.

I suppose once Sony heard it they obviously thought it had merit and based on Darren's past record sales decided to put it out for release, but that is where I think their support for TTATS begins and ends. I can well understand Darren not wanting Sony's interference on this but how wise a decision this was on a business level remains to be seen.

I know Darren said at the LP's he didn't care whether it sold heaps as long as it sold enough for him to continue making the music he likes. He also said he didn't care whether people hated it - there was definitely a I don't give a rat's arse attitude about him about it all that day [img]wink.gif[/img] I think he's just sick and tired of pleasing people so he decided to please himself for a change.

It was his way of saying thanks to all the fans who have stuck by him. But how he must be feeling about it all now, I've no idea. If he's not too happy about the way things have panned out then he perhaps doesn't much feel like sharing his thoughts with his fans right now. I mean people always want nice, positive stuff from him but and I stress the word but if that is not how he truly feels about things now, how does he reconcile his feelings with them?

Janie xx

[Kattitude]

I agree Janie. I wonder if by "people" he meant Sony people lol

I think he should if he doesnt realise that at least a segment of his fanbase and even some of the most cynical ones (myself) absolutely think TTATS was worth it. Theres no way he should apologise for that album.

I just wonder if it was so humilating and humbling with spin doing what it did. How do you feel when something that means so much to you, you just cant get out there. It must be frustrating. He may be happy and contend with the way things are going. I dont know how they have planned things with this album and they may be doing exactly what they personally planned with this album.

maybe he just simply hasnt even thought about his online journal as you do when you get caught with other things. How many times can you tell your fans you love them blah blah before it feels insincere. Maybe he doesnt want to present himself as that person.

Kat

[Dyan]

<font color="#9966FF" size="1">[ February 20, 2005 03:54 PM: Message edited by: Dyan ]</font>

[Lainbrain]

I think TTATS is a brilliant album. I think putting this out in the public eye is really an emotionally and could even be physically draining. People never really open up that much to other people the way Darren has, unless its to a very trusted few. Darren has done it to millions.

I think what he gave us is part of him and if there is nothing more of him to give right now then so be it. Be happy with what you have got.

To have this not do as well as he might have wanted could really hurt.

I really don't think this is the last of Mr Hayes and his wonderful talent. He is born to do this...

As for Sony I think they are in breach of contract to many artists. These stories are heard over and over again with them. They need some new management or a complete corporate restructuring.

<font color="#9966FF" size="1">[ February 20, 2005 02:50 PM: Message edited by: LainyB ]</font>

[Dyan]

Have you ever written something, then went away and realized what it was that you REALLY wanted to say? Well, this is one of those for me. lol So I'm editing.

The thing about Sony is that I think it's easy to fault a faceless entity. We don't see the people who work every day and who probably try their best for the artists. I'm sure there are some in Sony who only think of the buck and how much a given cd will sell. BUT I am also sure that there are countless others who are striving to do their best, and they have to find a way to balance their needs with the corporate needs and with the artist's needs. And I think in a way the artists have an easier time because they are very good at explaining their emotions and presenting their "side" of things to the public. Sony and it's employees, on the other hand, are somewhat the hidden factor and thus are easy to paint as the "bad guys".

I have always gotten the sense that for whatever reason, Sony wasn't thrilled with Tension. No business sits on something that that they think will sell, so my gut always said that there was a LOT more going on than the happy happy reports the fans kept getting about how thrilled Sony was with the new effort. But that brings me to my next point.

Kat and Janie, you are likely right and most of the remaining fans wouldn't accept a less-than happy and glowing Darren. BUT maybe this is my morning to be fair and see both sides, but all I can think right now is "well, that's what you get when you spend years grooming a fanbase to only be happy and only show the positive side."

Darren has every right to grow musically and in his emotional expectations of those around him. ........ I really want this to stand as a flat out statement because it's true. He has every right to grow and I can fully understand why (if this is what happened) his "everything is perfect" facade became too hard to bear.

And yet, this sort of goes back to something we talked about in that other thread. I don't think other people should be expected to immediately be able to shift gears to match his. Darren and his staff DID encourage certain things, and I personally believe that one of those things was an active fan base that was sickly sweet with only "postive and happy" people. Changing that will take time and it'll be messy. IF changing it even registers on Darren's radar. It might not.

The thing is that I don't think he HAS stopped caring or lost interest, and I think that's why we still see his fan club presenting that "everything must always be positive" image and expecting fans to do the same on the fan club board. It think it's also why we'll still see him working with specific fans in order to get the right image out.

Sometimes, I get the sense ....... well, truthfully, I often get the sense and have since early in Spin days ...... that Darren doesn't fully believe that simply being Darren is good enough. But then, who among us has the sense of self-worth? I don't. I know that I often struggle with internalizing the evil things some people said about me and not letting that overwhelm the "me" that I know that I am. I can't imagine what it's like to be in Darren's position if he shares those same self-doubts and where he has to talk about himself non-stop in interviews and where the focus is always on him.

GEEZ, I'm back to trying to understand his point of view. "Darren, get thee BACK!!!!!" *makes the cross sign and runs* lol

<font color="#9966FF" size="1">[ February 20, 2005 03:54 PM: Message edited by: Dyan ]</font>