Edited
<font color="#9966FF" size="1">[ February 26, 2005 07:41 PM: Message edited by: sharonlk ]</font>
Hi Guys
Interesting discussion. There's a lot here that rings true/helps.
I'd just like to say about "extreme fans" - I believe they are getting free reign because they are 95% of who are talking at the moment.
I know that feels like a self fulfilling prophecy, but I guess it all has to do with what percentage of the fan base utilize online capabilities to maximum effect (own websites, use forums), and what percentage of that percentage are vocal or "extreme".
The vocal "non extremists" (those who have "learnt" over the years, or were non extremist to beging with) have all died off recently because they've been overwhelmed by the extremists, or events in DH world (or lack thereof).
Probably the balance will return when/if Darren returns (to the biz or popularity), but it may be too late to change things around at the FC.
The atmosphere at the Sony BBS has changed (mainly because of fewer people around), but that's been an "ok" change because it was natural and fluid ie: it changed with people, not because rules were laid down about atmosphere. Because the BBS is fluid, it may change again. It's not a bad place, just quiet.
Anywho, lots of words about things lately, because it seems that's all we have about D lately. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Edited
<font color="#9966FF" size="1">[ February 26, 2005 07:41 PM: Message edited by: sharonlk ]</font>
well, in terms of "bad fans", a part of me is still very amused at being a moderator of the DH BBS now because there was a time where i know i was considered bad seed and a "troublemaker" by a number of fans LOL I think some people still see me that way, or as some sort of "bad fan sympathizer" because i (along with Laurie) don't let other fans bully people into only posting "nice" things on the DH BBS heh heh. So i would offer that as a comfort against the idea that Darren and his people only want the super-happy-positive people on his boards or even as moderators because someone higher up obviously didn't have a problem with Carla suggesting me as a moderator along with Laurie and Bri.
As Laurie and Dyan touched on, i think there are a mix of people working for Darren and working for Sony and since we are pretty much kept in the complete dark we can only guess why things happen or don't happen. Not that i think we shouldn't guess or speculate, as long as we realize we are just cloud-watching! LOL As in "that cloud looks like a bunny" "no i think it looks like a duck" heh heh
LOL Steen I think you must of gotten through on a loophole. No really I think you were and are always able to present a balanced argument. You dont get all fired up on the boards like say me LOL. Your past reputation probably preceded you.
What I really want to know is WHY? they got rid of Dyan. Who said to do that. Did they get a flood of complaints and what they suddenly take notice of that when they havent ever listened to complaints about themselves. Did she do something wrong? I mean they basically lied with that rotation story. So I mean even with everything else.. that just doesnt add up to me
Kat
<font size="3" face="Tempus sans ITC, Papyrus,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Awww thanks Sharon [img]redface.gif[/img] That's really nice of you to say.Well, this cloud that looks like a bunny says hoorah to you two as moderators because you're bloody good at it!
I would like to say, I don't think there is anything wrong with fans who are 100% supportive; who agree with what is being said and done, etc.. there is zero wrong with that. I think understanding is a 2 way street. For every person who wants to share that they aren't happy with something that was said or done, there are going to be people who are happy; and both sides have to understand one another. People don't have to agree, but it would be nice to see some more understanding.
100% support isn't fake. I can say that because I feel it myself, and what I feel is not fake. But there are problems with people accepting that that is possible, and for lack of a better word "mistreating" or judging fans because they support all that goes on.
There are also problems the other way around. There are fans who have a difficult time accepting that it is possible to not like everything; that you can still enjoy Darren and his music, you can still be a fan, but you can critique things and not always like what you see and hear. Sometimes fans are judged based solely on this and that isn't right either.
All I am really saying is that it would be good to see more acceptance that every type of fan is welcome and just because people don't agree does not mean they can't speak out in regards to how they feel.
Honestly... this whole thing has tired me to the point of where I am miserable and feeling like I just don't give a f*** any longer. Sad when that happens because I used to get such joy from this fanbase.
<font color="#9966FF" size="1">[ February 28, 2005 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Laurina ]</font>
Hey Laur (again [img]smile.gif[/img] ) I guess part of what we're talking about is the discussion (part billion) about the delivery of service at the FC (bouncing back and forth between boards here).
You're right, the understanding part of discussions is quite frustrating, but what I find frustrating is the amount of time wasted having to say "I'm not hate-this, I'm trying to say nicely that" and "I understand where you're coming from...", plus people having to decipher and translate between people "she said this because", "see the other side of the story".
I know that's the thing of a good moderator, but it really clutters a discussion when people make it so emotive and take a discussion off tangent because they've taken a tone of voice the wrong way.
I'm with you on being frustrated with the whole thing. I don't think it's a Darren community thing as such - it's a whole internet thing. This whole "taking the body language/face off discussion" has made a real social problem that we just haven't found a way to deal with, other than with emotions (which people don't trust anyway, because they are often miscontrued as fake/saying the opposite of the person's intent
ie: "I understand, I don't hate you *smilie* - but you hate my guts anyway...."
Kat, we'll never really know.
What I DO know is that it was Darren's management who made the call (and remember that Leonie wasn't his only manager, so I don't know which managment office), and it was over something that I said on the bbs. They felt that it was easier to change moderators than to approach me directly. What I don't know is what I said or why, after all the years of support and work to support the music, that I didn't deserve a second chance or why someone couldn't take the time to talk to me first. But I suspect that it was a combination of things.
Truthfully, I was a bad choice as a mod and accepting the position was an even worse one. The reason that I was a bad choice is that I was (simply put) too controversial. People seemed to either like me or hate me, and too many people were vocal in their "leaving" statements the very moment that my name went up. AND I knew that would probably happen and I expected it, so I have to accept responsiblity for letting my ego believe that I could overcome that.
I was also opinionated. My feeling is that when things were going badly (as they did for Darren with Spin), that critical opinions were best kept private. And perhaps as a moderator, I shouldn't have been so open with my thoughts. Had I been given more time and had someone wanted to keep me enough to approach me, I think that I could (and would) have modified my natural tendency to speak out. But as things happened, there wasn't enough time for me to grow into the position (remember that I was only a mod for three months AND that I had virtually no help .. Carla was burnt out and missing in action and Emma, bless her soul, hadn't yet learned to stand up and take a firm position because she also needed time to grow into the job). The bottom line is that I misjudged things in a huge way and didn't realize that my opinions were getting me into hot water.
Then add in the fact that I tend to react badly when I feel attacked. From day one, I had a target on my back and I knew it. Friends who meant well had told me of things they had heard about other fans' plans to complain and get rid of me, and well....... I handled things badly. Again, that's my responsiblity.
Plus, because I wasn't one of the fans that would travel to see Darren or had met him, he and Leonie didn't 'know' me other than online. I think that matters. Maybe a lot. And perhaps it's only natural ....... I don't know how to put what I'm thinking, but I think it made a difference. I DO know (and this is one of those things that I wish that I didn't know) that Darren and Leonie listen to what fans think about each other. I'm not sure how heavily that factors into things, but they do ask and seem to consider what someone (I don't mean anyone in particular -- I just mean someone that they know and someone that they could ask for an opinion) thinks about another person. So perhaps that's why the fact that I never had the chance to get to know them as people and to have them know me made a difference. They didn't get to know anything about me other than what they saw online, and what they saw was colored by what people said (and yes, I know more than I should about what was said). Btw, I'm not faulting Darren and Leonie here. I think this is human nature and something that a lot of us do.
So all in all, what happened was that I misjudged where the line was and I had the bad timing to cross that line at a time when perhaps there wasn't a lot of extra time to give to fans because there were more important things to focus on ......... like Darren's career. Removing me with a quick lie was the an efficient way to get rid of a problem and move on quickly. Again, I don't fault them that decision because that's good business to deal with things quickly and efficiently.
The thing is that it hurts to be the "problem" and to know that I deserved no more effort than an impersonal lie signed "Columbia Records". Those of you who know me, know that I strongly belive in second chances. As many second chances as it takes to get something right, in fact. *smiles* I'm not always good at living my belief, but that truly is a strong underlying principle (a moral value, even) in my life and it is something that I always come back to when I stray from it. So even though I'll take full responsiblity for what I did wrong as a fan and as a moderator, it still stings to know that I didn't deserve another chance.
BUT maybe they misjudged me too. Maybe they didn't think that I'd leave over the decision or didn't realize that I'd be hurt over how I was handled (I find it hard to believe that they didn't realize that I'd be hurt by getting a cold, impersonal message........ but it's possible). And it's often very hard to approach someone after the fact and after you know that your actions hurt them. Maybe Darren and Leonie felt as hurt and betrayed by my reaction as I did over how I was treated.
Still ........ I deserve second chances too and some understanding on their part would have been nice. You know?
Sorry, long ramble. lol
<font color="#9966FF" size="1">[ February 28, 2005 10:11 PM: Message edited by: Dyan ]</font>
<font size="3" face="Tempus sans ITC, Papyrus,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, this cloud that looks like a bunny says hoorah to you two as moderators because you're bloody good at it!Originally posted by sunhawk:
I think some people still see me that way, or as some sort of "bad fan sympathizer" because i (along with Laurie) don't let other fans bully people into only posting "nice" things on the DH BBS heh heh. So i would offer that as a comfort against the idea that Darren and his people only want the super-happy-positive people on his boards or even as moderators because someone higher up obviously didn't have a problem with Carla suggesting me as a moderator along with Laurie and Bri.
<font size="3" face="Tempus sans ITC, Papyrus,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL I guess it all comes down to 3 versions, my version , their version and the truth. I guess it was like Darren said a messy divorce.Originally posted by mlue:
"The whole vibe from the PTB etc etc after the breakup was if you werent 100% supportive of Darren and his actions there was somehow something wrong with you. Many other fans seem to help perpetuate this as well. Many were great about it all too and for those fans I do thank them."
Interesting that was how you saw things.
I guess I would have said that was the vibe from a contingent of fans but I wouldn't have said it was the vibe of the ptb (and I hate that term too). My memory of those days was a message from Darren with his side of the story. I would have said the vibe from the message from Darren, from Leonie and from Carla was more of a plea for understanding, for peace in a very riled up board...some being pissed at Darren and some being pissed at other fans.
But I am a lot like Laurie in my viewpoint...I think most of the vibe of every place comes from the fans and very little actually comes from Darren and company.
Laurie I dont think theres anything wrong in being 100% supportive if you feel that way. Theres nothing wrong even with saying hey its not the way Id do it but I support it and him etc. If people truly feel that way they have every right to feel that way.
Dyan thanks for explaining all that. I know at the time of you being mod I was still in Anti Dyan phase (hey see everyone gets a turn) but thats not the issue. I could of marched up and down screamed blue murder for say Maggz to be removed and would any one of listened??? It wouldnt of mattered a jot. You did the best you could with what you had. It was a hard time exp with the FC happening and people feeling left out. You tried to make it all like the way it use to be. Everyone sharing info about Darren and the board being as you stated for the fans. We didnt realise that we got judged on the board by who we were and how we posted. Plus when you have certain people making sure Darren sees who they allow him too, well it just makes things uglier.
It may of been business so easier to do it impersonal like. But in the act of doing it they made it personal. I think they could of talked about it with you if they had problems.
Kat
Steen, Kat, thanks. [img]smile.gif[/img] I was coming back to edit, but maybe it should stand as I wrote it. You know me ....... always changing my mind. LOL
I did meet Darren a listening party for Affirmation. It was one of those situations where he was mingling among fans to spend a moment chatting with each, so yes I too had a moment to chat with Darren. It was very nice, and he seemed very nice. But to be honest, I guess that I don't really think of that as "meeting" him. Odd, huh?
I guess my point is, though, to put that in context with some others who have had several meetings and have made an effort to travel to see him live. NOW I am not judging here or saying what is "right" or "wrong"....... 'k? But there are those of us who for one reason or another have gone to different countries or attended several shows or appearances in the same country and even on the same tour. And many others have hung out to hope to get a chance to say 'hi' or gotten invited back stage or something like that.
(OKAY, to be brutely honest, I did hang out once after the Chicago show with a group of friends only to discover that we made horrid stalkers because the "star" went out a different door and all we got to see was the local town drunk. LOL)
Marilu, it really is more than just coming from fans or things fans do to themselves. I think to a degree, that fans are responsible for the mess. BUT I also think that we've seen several instances where Darren or his family or his staff were closely involved with certain fans, and those fans all seem to carry the same message. To say that it's only fans who create the issues around here seems (to me) to ignore the big, pink elephant sitting in the corner.
<font color="#9966FF" size="1">[ March 01, 2005 02:27 AM: Message edited by: Dyan ]</font>
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