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[sandnash]

Okay, let me just start by saying I understand where you're coming from...my parents are Southern Baptist and if they don't convert others or bring others in, they go to "hell." So you must be pretty scared, huh? Its pretty obvious that no one here is supporting you on these posts. I'm guessing you're on a "mission"? Well, mission impossible dude.

Sidenote: I see references to Chrisitanity in many Social D songs, but thats not the only subject the songs are about. There are so many references to all aspects of life in Social D songs (depression, love, drugs, etc.), and thats what makes Mike Ness a true American songwriter, or even author. He is able to touch upon many different themes without losing his true voice. Yeah, its up to us to interpret some songs the way we see best, but it is not a singular viewpoint (and by this I mean Christianity).

[esvenneby]

Originally posted by PainWillBeMyMotivation:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="verdana, arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="verdana, arial">Originally posted by Erica S:
I'm sure many of them would have forfieted the hero title and chose a different path if they would have known all the terror they would be facing. Its heartbreaking.

<font size="2" face="verdana, arial">Yeah, I've got a few friends who are over there, completely against it, but tied up in it nonetheless. They had no idea what they were in for; they just wanted to break out of the dead-end cycle of our town and get some money for college and all that shit. They definately miscalculated as to what they'd be in for (or, as the cynic inside me says, got hustled) and they'd be happy to be working at fucking McDonald's right now.

My brother enlisted in Spring 2001 and his "famous last words" to comfort our nervous mother were "It's not like we're going to war or something". Now, him I do call a dumbass. [img]smile.gif[/img] </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="verdana, arial">Python, you completely ignored PWBMMs post and said that you dont believe they feel that way. I personally think your a bit delusional about these subjects, and I feel as though I can argue many points with you over and over, but I'm not going to keep wasting my time. The subject on Ness's spiritual belief (which seems to be the core of your passion for writing these posts), he doesnt think like you, and you know he hates George Bush. He says that over and over again. In past threads when this topic has came up, I stated that I heard he was spiritual and I know he likes religious "icons". I would assume because of all the history of passion, love, pain, hate, death, etc. that is tied to it... not because he is extremely religious. Someone else posted in a past thread that he said he was spiritual in an interview that he read. I belive it was lost heart.
I was also told a while before the previous threads by someone very close to Mike and the rest of the band that he and Jonny consider their beliefs spiritual. I wouldnt have posted those prior statements if I didnt have some sort of bearing on the subject. I'm not pulling this out of my ass. I'm not saying I know everything and that I'm 100 percent right on this topic. I cant get inside his head or heart, but I'm not thousands of miles away in a completely different world, like you.

[babyblue71]

Python, I know you have chosen a path for yourself that is very meaningful for you, which is great. But I think people are trying to say that hearing about it too much gets annoying, no matter what it is.

I had a friend who got together with a great guy. He fell in love with her, treated her great and made her really happy. We were all very happy for her. But every time any of us had a conversation with her, it was always "my boyfriend this and my boyfriend that". She talked about him incessantly and it drove us all crazy. Even when I would mention a place I went or a great movie I saw, it would turn into "well, my boyfriend doesn't like the actor in that movie" or "I really want to go there with my boyfriend too but he would rather drive than fly there". It got to the point that people started to avoid her and wished she had something else to talk about.

I don't mean to offend you or anything, but do you catch my drift?

[social_d_fan01]

people that enlist for the military have to think of all the possiblities of going to war and maybe even death so i dont see why any of our troops that put their selves in harms way every single day while we sit here on our asses and talk about a little bit of music now and then would want to have choosen a different path outside of armed forces. You enlist to serve our country and if a war is called for then so be it go fight the war as best you can and come home safely

[Python423]

(quote) Okay, let me just start by saying I understand where you're coming from...my parents are Southern Baptist and if they don't convert others or bring others in, they go to "hell." So you must be pretty scared, huh? (end quote)

Your view of gonig to hell is very inaccurate. There is nothing you can do to earn salvation (gonig to heaven), theres nothing you can do to prevent yourself from having it. Its a Gift of God, all you have to do is accept Jesus Christ into your life. A speaker the other night made a great comparision. He was at a restaurant eating, and finished up and got ready to leave. He asked the waitress for his ticket. She said, Sir it has been paid for. Hes like, what? who paid it? She said, Sir it has been paid for. He looked around , trying to see anyone he might know. Hes like what to I do? Do I pay her anyway? pay her again? twist her arm? make her tell me who paid , so I can repay them? or Do I just get up and walk away with a clean slate (clean bill).

I'm sure if you ask your parents they will explain this to you. I didnt have a clear understanding of it until just a month or two ago.

(quote)Its pretty obvious that no one here is supporting you on these posts. I'm guessing you're on a "mission"? Well, mission impossible dude.(end quote)

Well actually no. There was one person who turned their life over to Christ. As a result of this. And several people have pm'ed or emailed me saying they support Christ and are Christian. Yet they haven't pubically came forward yet? I guess they are scared how others will rip them, I dunno? If any of you reading, take a stand. Be Proud to say you are a Christian. Remember if you are ashamed of Christ, he will also be ashamed of you in front of the father. We need people to stand up.

(quote) Sidenote: I see references to Chrisitanity in many Social D songs, but thats not the only subject the songs are about. There are so many references to all aspects of life in Social D songs (depression, love, drugs, etc.),"
Yeah, its up to us to interpret some songs the way we see best, but it is not a singular viewpoint (and by this I mean Christianity). (end quote)

No one said thats what all the songs are about, the ones in question that got these threads going tho were about those values. I think you'll see a big shift in Mikes music and life aroudn White Light, when his grandmother died and he was born again. He may have changed way even before this. I dont think you'll hear any new songs promoting drug use. WE all have ups and downs, once you become a beliver doesent mean you will be happy from now on with no heart aches. It'll just become alot easier now is all.

Go back and watch this video
http://www.socialdistortion.com/visu.../angelsing.mov

The first thing you see is the Cross that Jesus died on. Christ is hanging from the Cross in the background all throughout this video.

Someone also claimed he had Jesus on his chest or tatoo somewhere, I'm not familar with his tatoos, but hello??

Yeah we can all interpt songs diff ways, and I've heard Mike comment on that before in interviews about how people have done that, and it amazes him because thats not how he saw it, he wrote it from his heart. To me thats important to know his meaning behind it, not mine, not anyone elses. The ture meaning of the song, the TRUE inspiritation. The one and only true inspiration.

Peace be with us,
Its a time to love, not hate,
Python

<font color="#FFFF00" size="1">[ March 13, 2006 10:00 PM: Message edited by: Python423 ]</font>

[Python423]

(quote) Python, you completely ignored PWBMMs post and said that you dont believe they feel that way. I personally think your a bit delusional about these subjects. (end quote)

I think the most part , the soldiers are proud. Lets ask some? I'm sure I can find some websites of soldiers who are serving now. I'm sure some may have regretted it? I'm sure. But I do belive the most part are proud of what they are doing. And belive they are donig it for a rigiteous cause.

(quote)The subject on Ness's spiritual belief (which seems to be the core of your passion for writing these posts), he doesnt think like you, and you know he hates George Bush.(end quote)

Oh yeah I know he does. Christians are in agreement on everthing? LOL. They will always have differences, many many differences. But one thing they have, is love and faith for Jesus Christ.


(quote) He says that over and over again. In past threads when this topic has came up, I stated that I heard he was spiritual and I know he likes religious "icons". I would assume because of all the history of passion, love, pain, hate, death, etc. that is tied to it... not because he is extremely religious. (end quote)

A relationship with Christ is a spiritial relationship. Christianity isn't really a religion. Its putting all your faith and worries and troubles into the hands of Lord Jesus Christ. Even I don't want to get into all the invidual beliefs of such sub denominations (Iknow that spelling is wrong). That are not bibically backed. At least not yet.


(Quote) I was also told a while before the previous threads by someone very close to Mike and the rest of the band that he and Jonny consider their beliefs spiritual. (end quote)

Do a search (yahoo or google for Johnny Cash Christian), Johnny Cash was a Christian and he put it in his music and songs. Yeah he was a rebel at first, its a life story (much like the stories from the people God used in the bible), people who sinend and then found God. Ever christian book store has at least a few books on Johnny Cash and his Christian Faith. Heres a article. Cash had numerous soungs (probably albums also) dedicated to Jesus and the cross.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/011/4.60.html

(quote)I wouldnt have posted those prior statements if I didnt have some sort of bearing on the subject. I'm not pulling this out of my ass. I'm not saying I know everything and that I'm 100 percent right on this topic. I cant get inside his head or heart, but I'm not thousands of miles away in a completely different world, like you.(quote)

To me I think you and probably others are taking the spiritial comments meaning hes not Christian. this is not the case. Your Spirital life is what its all about. Its about a spirital relationship with Jesus Christ. To me its obvious from Mikes music and videos where his faith is, not one or two of his songs, but most all have some sorta reference to God. Christ is in his videos and on his tatoos. He's Mikes personal savior. Cash on the other hand, has shown his faith pubically without a question of doubt. Ness is a little subtle seems like maybe? that he hasnt actually used Christs name in the songs.. that i know of.. tho they could be in some of the "under the influence" covers. House of Gold is one of my favorite from that album. Christ is on his tatoos and in his video.. Maybe he just hasn't had someone pubically ask him about his faith? hopefully he will clear the AIR soon. I hope so, I dont want to see other fans be mislead.

To me its obvious. And others as well. John Maurer has pubically came forward with his faith. I also read Dennis was into Catholic Church (which belive in Jesus Christ as the Savior, but add alot more to the story, but thats a whole other story). I also know Dennis was involved in producing Christian Bands. I haven't researched Johnny yet, but he seems so nice. And like hes got a good head on his solider, I'll have to see what I can find.


I just relaized you might be talking about Johnny, I dunno why I figured Cash ?? I dunno.. but Good to know Johnny has a Spirital life. Anyone has any direct contacts with Mike, I'd love for him to see these threads and respond some way.. I may end up having to write a letter to his managment in hopes of getting to him. But I'm sure if he read this, he woudl respond somehow. Anyone got any connections?

Peace be with us,
Lets Love, not Hate
Python

[Python423]

Originally posted by babyblue71:

It got to the point that people started to avoid her and wished she had something else to talk about.

I don't mean to offend you or anything, but do you catch my drift?

<font size="2" face="verdana, arial">I understand completley what you are talking about... But keep in mind this tread was about a particualr soung or faith of a band member, so it was in topic, and we are discussing? and best part its in a peaceful , loving, respectful way. Its Good to Air all this out, and just talk among friends. I dont want to be over bearing, but you can't seperate Christ from social D. they are part of each other. And these songs or threads are in particlar to that.. someone is a satanic, should avoid the "john maurer christian thread" or spirital soungs thread..

I'm not going to go into another thread and start preaching or nothing......

We are still talking and discussing.. And I feel its shifted toward a peaceful lovign type discussion now...... Which is a good thing... So I see it good to air it all out until everone has said all they want to...


I do see your point tho.

God Bless,
Python

[social_d_fan01]

i would love for mike or anyone else from the band to come on here once in awhile but they are probably way too busy for that

[deadliner]

Wow, I opened this thread when it was first posted, and just opened it again today wondering why it had so many replies....

My two cents, I believe that Mike Ness is, as the interview with John M said, what would be called a "seeker", perhaps more. Would he himself call himself a Christian? I think he would stop short of it. I remember listening to an interview on the web he did for a radio station when the last album came out, and the guy pretty much came right out and asked him because of the lyrics on the album, about all he would say is that he is "spirtiual". But would he not come right out and say it fearing a backlash from some of his fans, I don't know, but I say that could be possible. Maybe he is just turned off from organized religion (there are enough reasons for sure), I just don't know, you would have to ask him.....

Now having said that, his lyrics do lend themselves to being pretty close to Christian, at least in their "spirtual" themes.

I'm torn on where this thread has gone, as I understand where people are coming from not wanting to be "preached to", I have felt that way in the past too, and do believe that no matter how sincere you may be, you have got to know when to back off, as getting people mad at you does no good in the end. But on the other hand, a Christian is supposed to share the Gospel with others. It doesn't "get them a free pass into heaven", but the New Testament clearly says that believers are to share their faith and encourage others to turn to God. I personally have never been really upset with that, as I understand what they are doing, and are (or should be) doing out of concern for others. After all, if you truely believe in Heaven and Hell, and that the only way to get to Heaven is to repent, turn from sin and put your faith in Jesus and you will have eternal life, isn't it an act of love to try to get others to join you?

So is Mike a Christian? Maybe, if he is, its probably going down a similar path of the Man in Black, as he has said himself he has almost patterned his life after Johnny Cash. Will Mike be writing lyrics like Cash's "When the Man Comes Around" when he is 70 years old? I just hope we are all around to find out......

[Python423]

Originally posted by Erica S:
[/qb]

<font size="2" face="verdana, arial">It was harsh. I was all fired up when I posted that, and I was really referring to the people starting the war, not the people fighting it. I feel very sorry for the troops and their families. I'm sure alot of them are over there feeling dumb at times though. Wondering how did I choose this as my path in life? Am I going to survive? Will I ever see my kids/parents/mate/friends again? All the suffering that so many people have and will endure over this war is a shame. I'm sure many of them would have forfieted the hero title and chose a different path if they would have known all the terror they would be facing. Its heartbreaking.
They should be recognized and honored for having to be so brave. I apologize for my harshness.[/QUOTE]

I don't believe they feel that way. All who I've saw are very proud of what is gonig on there. They see the people thanking them, and they see how grateful they are. There are things worth fighting for , and even dieing for. I'm thankful that we have people who feel that way. If we didn't, we wouldn't be here having this discussion.

I think we as Americans only see our little space in our hometown, our friends and immediate surroundings.. The presidents have a much much broader sense of whats gonig on in the world. And I see America as one of the major peace keepers in the world. You can't turn your back on those in need (the Iraq people and people under such harsh goverment), did you read the articles about the blinding of people as punishment by pouring acid in their eyes? this is done all the time in Iran. I dont think any of us are qualified to say we know how to run the country or even come close to understanding all the things that go into such decisions.

I guess it be easy to just take care of our own, and forget everone else. But thats not how the world works. Someone has to keep world peace in the world, you can't sit back and let terrorists and goverments that support terrorists, research and devise new and cruel methods to torture their own citizens and to bring these type terrors to our lands.

Because if its left ignroed, it only grows and grows and grows, and then we really coudln't do anything to stop them.

As messy as it gets over there, its gotta be done, and we are the strongest country to do it, and with help of the allies, its gotta be done.

Sometimes the only way to keep evil people from doing great harm is by going to war with them.

In the Old Testament, God ordered the Israelites to: ?Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites? (Numbers 31:2) Exodus 17:16 proclaims, ?He said, "For hands were lifted up to the throne of the LORD. The LORD will be at war against the Amalekites from generation to generation."

So, obviously God is not against all war. Ecclesiastes 3:8 declares, ?there is?a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace. In a world filled hatred, and evil, war is inevitable. Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.

I think alot of people against this war, are only seeing how its affecting them and their surroundings, and how it might be costing them extra at the pump, or whatever. I dont think they take into consideration, "the big picture"