Consolodation?

[R0cketer]

Look, simple dialogue and discussion have been done and attempted. The phrase you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink comes to mind. You can put it out there in dollars and cents, but you can't make people see it.

As I recall, people were elected on the simple comment "I'm against consolidation". The facts, anything else didn't matter, they were against it, I'm against it, so they got the vote. How are you supposed to believe that those people are going to do anything that is in the best for the kids or even have the capacity to accept what is best.

I ask you this, how many AP classes are offered at Appalachia High School? How many are offered at say JJ Kelly high school. I simply want numbers on this.

This isn't football, this isn't sports, this is education, this is what is going to allow this area to improve, this is what is going to allow kids to be able to compete students from other areas.

If the school board or the administration has conducted things in a perceived sneaky manner than thats one thing, but the issue IS NOT about how the school board does something, it should be about what is the BEST for the students, and what allows them to have the best education possible, to be able to compete with others.

If they go to three high schools, how much larger do you perceive any of the schools being than any of the schools were 20 years ago. Most of these schools in Wise County are 50 years old (approximately). The population in those schools is approximately 1/2 of what it was then. These are facts, not opinions, not an emotional comment based on the pride of being a Bulldog or anything, just simple numbers.

[imported_Counts]

You are right the SB needs to be more open and remove the fog of mystery of what will or will not happen You will always have some that are against any type of change what so ever but if Consolidation is truly in the kids best interest it would swing alot of support. I would like to see Clintwood remain as is as much as the next person and I walk the fence on this issue but DCs population keeps dropping and with consolidation now while we can tap into alot of Fed Money as opposed to later when the county tax payers would foot the whole bill I chose now.

And to be completely honest I have been to Shelby Valley and East Ridge and I am jealous I work with a few parents of kids that go to East Ridge and none of them would trade it for the return of Elk Horn High School.

[R0cketer]

With all the discussion of lies and not truths and half truths and facts...the very first comment was 'how will you like it when ...'

thats the problem, this isn't a "feeling" topic. There has to be some thought to the affects of how it feels, but there is no person on here who will pay 30,000 for a 20,000 car. No matter if you like the salesman or not, sometimes the bottom line just has to out weigh sentiment.

[retiredteach]

I am neither for nor against consolidation, but I am afraid that it is going to happen, mainly because of enrollment and money. As far as teachers losing their jobs, I was told at a Christmas Party, that if it did happen, no teacher would lose their job. That tells me that there has been considerable planning going on already. People don't always accept change, even when it is for the best, and I am not saying that this is for the best, but change is just hard for some folks. I feel for the folks at Appy. That school and that football team is their heritage and identity. Appy and Pound in particuliar have lost much because of loss of jobs in the area. Sometimes things just cannot go on the way they have been for a number of reasons. I do not think that the situation was well handled by the current school board. By the way, I have been approached several times about running, but my plate is pretty much full. If future consolidation was the determining factor in decisions being made, then why not have community members, teachers and other folks in on it. The facts could have been presented such as, here are the projected enrollments, here are the projected funds and what it will take to keep all the schools open. Come up with a solution or solutions and pick the best one. Folks don't like being kept in the dark, or feel as if they were only given half truths, or even told untruths, then that is another issue. I don't think the results were a surprise to anyone. Another issue presented was too many folks at the Central Office. I said that about 25 years ago. There were getting to be more Chiefs than there were Indians. The entire system might need to be streamlined. Then on the other side of the coin, sometimes decisions must be made when all the fact cannot be made public, because of sensitive issues and the like. I know I am going to receive some criticism on this, but governing bodies sometimes have access to information that is not known to the public as a whole. Just as there are certain military decisions that I feel should not be made public for the safety of those folks concerned. Same thing. Now, I don't know exactly what has transpired behind closed doors, and probably never will, but when you begin to shout accusations and the environment becomes hostile, nothing is accomplished, except hard feelings. Those feelings can carry from one generation to another. Guess I will attempt to hush now. Thanks for listening.

Well that is what we are looking to be answered to. We were told more and better classes. The study does say some will have more opportunities and some better classes.

I have seen no figures laid out. All i have seen is where a few jumped the gun and pointed it out. This is what needs to be done. Their figures were well off the mark. The study even backs that up.

It's not about sports or being a Bulldog or a Viking or a Blueknight or Wildcat. It's about doing things for once open and honest.

I pointed out the main concerns of some. Just as Mrs. Bush did in her letter. I think she is still to receive a reply. That is the problem. Many question but few answers.

I think we all want what is best for our children. But when will we get open and honest dialogue to where we can, actually see figures. I have seen none myself.

Want to fix the problem. Some honesty and some making amends. From the school admin. board and citizens. People don't like that concept, why i have no idea.
Want to look at this and get real ideas an input. Give people some answers.

About like a court case. Show your burden of proof to back up your statements. Right now the administration says one thing, but does something else. Just as it was stated. We have not talked about consolidation. Well Mrs. Robinette i think it was said it had been. Yet our administrator said it had not been discussed?

A little honesty and truth may set the right tone for many to work together. And a few attitude changes. Not everyone was elected on i will not vote for consolidation. It was i will look at what needs to be done. If consolidation is the answer, then we need to seriously consider it and look at it. But all phases of it. And how to fund and implement it and make it something. That kids entering school now will not have to be paying for again 20 yrs down the road.

Im not sure what is hard about that to see. The citizens never started the mistrust. It was started by those at the top. The administration, then some board members who refused to say yes we have. Would you not feel a little betrayed? A little upset to be told by one at the top. It's not even been discussed then to be told, yes it has been.

Then suddenly it's close one school it will save a million dollars? A study done by who? This study done by professionals says at the most 200,000 dollars closing one school. And that will be gone in one year.

I'll say it again. It's time for some to say, we lied, as of today that is over. We are sorry. Now let's get to work together, administration, board and citizens, and let's make it work for Wise County and most of all the kids. And let's do it in a way we can be proud of what we decide to do.

But as i said will that ever happen?

It's not Bulldog, Blueknight, or Viking or Wildcat pride standing in the way.

It's political rhetoric and lies that has and is hampering the issues. When your lied to your lied to. Problem is none will admit they lied.
And yes i have myself talked to a couple on the board of supervisors who say this was handled wrong from the start. And they themselves have some trust issues with the school administration. So it's not just a few and it's not just citizens from Appy.
And it was not even people on the board of supervisors in my district.
They are asking the same questions. When will they, the administration and board do what is rigth and clean up their mess.
So that trust can possibly be earned, so all can meet on common grounds and discuss it the way it should be?

[Merlin]

Granted, the school board and administration has really handled the consolidation issue badly and now have a PR nightmare on their hands. They should probably have had public hearings at different venues across the county to take public comment and this may still happen as part of the process that is underway. However, if I am not mistaken, most of the turmoil that now exists originated when it was supposedly "leaked" that the school board was going to close Appalachia High School at the next meeting. Does anyone really know if this was the case or just someone blowing a rumor completely out of proportion and inciting the Appalachia community to nearly riot? There have been a lot of half truths and rumors flying about since this incident and it needs to stop. The study was a wise first step in trying to determine what must be done. The very survival of our schools is at stake and in the not to distant future major changes will have to be made like it or not. If the local school system cannot make headway to get itself on better financial footings, then the Commonwealth of Virginia may do it for them. If this happens (and it is a great possibility than you might now think) we will have little say or control of the situation as they will mandate what is to be done. Our schools live on state tax revenues primarily from Northern Virginia. It has already been attempted to greatly reduce that revenue flow in the General Assembly, but they have thus far failed. I don't think this will always be the case and our schools will have to fend for themselves on whatever tax revenue this area can produce. We don't have a Motorola or BMW factory in our backyard to depend on for tax revenue. Mining is a dying industry and we are struggling to bring other types of industries to our area. So, it will be just us and the small businesses of this area that we must ulitmately depend upon to fund our schools, as well as, other public services. We must stop fighting among ourselves and pointing fingers so that the impending problems of our schools can be solved in the most appropriate, fair, and economically sound way possible.

[R0cketer]

Again, not saying that there hasn't been wrongs done by the School Board, Administration of such, but how many times does the topic need to come up....

It would take a stupid and completely close minded individual to not look at the situation, look at the budget figures and go crap something needs to be done.

I want to read you something, in particularly directed to LPD. The group that did this review was Commonwealth Educational Policy Institute or (CEPI), School of Education from Virginia Commonwealth University. On page 3 of the article, near the bottom there is a heading Communications from the Communities. It says and I directly quote "CEPI wishes to acknowledge and express its appreciation to the approximately 300-400 community members who attended one of the six community input meetings held during the site visit. Although the purpose of the meetings was intended to give citizens an opportunity to discuss the review and more specifically how the school system could more effectively utilize its resources to improve the instructional program and opportunity for access for all students, it was made clear that the topic for the citizens was school consolidation. Consequently the team did a lot of listening on the topic; regretfully little information emerged on the primary scope of the review. An unintended but very helpful outcome of these sessions was an appreciation for the extent of pride and history the community felt for each of their schools."

Now then, it sounds a lot like to me the study was trying to find out about one thing and nobody could get past the 'emotional' issues, pride, community, etc. As it says there was 'little information' on the primary scope of the review. It also seems to say there was some meetings but a few hundred had one issue mainly and that was all they could seemed to want to focus on.

[Merlin]

Very good post teach.

Cooler heads are definitely needed now. If I'm not mistaken, no decision has officially been made in any way even though it is evident that some planning or studying has been going on for some time. But, for that, I commend the school board and administration for at least trying to progressivly plan and study for whatever contengencies that way arise in the future. By this, we know they are doing the jobs they were elected or hired to do, respectively. Don't condemn them for looking at all possibilities. It is their duty to do so in order to properly plan for the future and manage the school system for the betterment of the county as a whole. That being said, we, the public, do have a right be told what is going on, especially when it affects our children the way our schools do. If they are withholding information or outright lying then, it is our responibility as the electorate to hold them accountable. I'm not entirely convinced this is the case however. Most of what I've seen in the print media has come from a small group of individuals who may or may not be privy to what, if anything, has "gone on behind closed doors." So, I will make my own judgements when the actual facts are made public as the process continues forward. As I said, cooler heads and open minds are needed now.

[R0cketer]

Very very good post Merlin and very accurate.

The study isn't a vote, its a study. Sometimes I think government by its nature does to many committees and such to function but this seems to be a good move. They are letting people outside of the situation, people who can look at facts, numbers and bigger issues and not protecting their own butts, precious self preservation, or the like. I think that people should be happy about the study.

That being said, if you allow an honest study done, you have to be ready to take the good and the bad alike. Did the study maybe point to the 'supposed' agenda that a few board members have? Sure it did. Did it probably raise some other issues that didn't fit their tastes? Sure it did.

To many times we are lead to believe what 'we know as facts' or what we are told 'went on' instead of having actual facts. Of course by the same token, you can lay cold hard facts in front of some people and they only see what they want to see.

This study was done of the school system in general, not about consolidation. Of course some of the more vocal members of the population are going to only focus on the consolidation issue because it is such a hot topic. The report wasn't about consolidation, it wasn't a consolidation study, it was a resource management reivew, so someone saying it was about consolidation isn't accurate and even if it was someone from the central office saying it, or a member of the school board, they aren't accurate to. Just because someone who should know says something doesnt make it fact, nor does it make the others who say something different liars. Naturally some are going to view one thing one way, some anothers.

If the report had a discussion of how costs could be saved by eliminating athletics, it wouldn't be a report about 'getting rid of sports' it would still be an overview of rescources. Oh sure if a few people glanced and saw the hot topic issue, it would be all over that the school board had done went and gotten a report to get rid of sports, even if there was 2000 other suggestions and ideas in there.

It's a divided issue people, and instead of just believing what you you hear because you want to believe that, sometimes you got to dig a bit deeper.

And what it does not say. Yes it was echoed. But never did the group mention to do these things it would require consolidation.
The things told at these meetings were. We are looking to make your schools better. We want you to review what we see as problems and give us your input.
They got input. And much was about how can this be done. Without consolidation. Something left out of what was given out.
Their reply was. We are not here to look at consolidation nor have a view on consolidation. We are looking at ways to make the schools and it's system run more efficiently.
Upon asking several i was under the influence the school were not even looking to be consolidated.
That the money would be made available through some loan or grants.
The people would not even answer question as to consolidation or funding, what was on the list of recommendations. Basically it was tell us what you want, how do we help you make it run more efficiently.
And we will tell you what we have. There was no straight dialogue as to this cannot be done without looking at consolidation?
Why? Because they did their study and their not a group that does studies and handles consolidations. That to was stated. So many left with the idea. There has to be money available somewhere if they can fix this without consolidation. And was stated last night, by the gentleman who spoke. We don't do consolidations.
Im not saying we or anyone who seen the figures were not astonished. But upon asking how, there were few details given. It was we want your input on what needs to be done, and what do we look at.
They were given that. And given ideas. But at no time was anyone doing the survey talking about consolidation? I think that was well proven in the opening remarks last night.
Well they said this is what it takes to fix what is wrong. Yet no mention or even hint as to where the money would come from or really how to solve the problem. And as the gentleman stated last night. We are not in the business of consolidation.
Well we spent 40,000 dollars to get the study. And what i seen and was told. This is what needs to be done here and there at this estimated cost. But no one will ever say how it was to be paid for?
And each time anyone was ask about should we consolidate to do this. No answer was given. Just basically we do not do that type of work. We are looking for what you the citizens see as problems.
So if there was no talk of consolidation then they got what they were looking for. Many pointed out problems within each school and things that needed to be done. But upon asking how this was to be done. There was no clear answers given.

And one thing i will keep saying. Your not gonna get a lot of citizen to answer a lot of questions.
When again there is no answers.
And when no one can trust what is coming from Wise. Well like i said. Time to make amends. Say hey we lied or maybe we messed up. Now let's start some open, honest dialogue and see what can and needs to be done.
Like Mr. G said. It would not hurt for the school administration and board and "citizen groups", selected from each community to sit down and have some open and honest discussion.
But will that happen?
Who knows as for now. All i know is there is major problems between those at the top, those in the middle and those at the bottom.
And the biggest issue is trust and honest and open dialogue.
Even in the study it was not open as to what options should be considered. As far as citizen input. And one reason it was not to be a topic.

Im not blind to anything. I know at some point change has to come. But it has to come at a price that has honesty and open dialogue. There is none of that now. And honestly the study had great intentions. But conducted in a manner that most felt, nothing is going to change. They just are honestly wanting us to tell them now what we need. Most walked away thinking maybe the schools are gonna get fixed. My main question was where is the money and the funding. I looked hard at the figures and i knew, just like my first post. This will end up right where it is now. Even told one in the study group that.