Evolution...

[R13]

"You guys really don't know what you're talking about, and in typical fashion for those of your leaning you are being condescending and juvenile."


What was wrong about what I said? And where is all this condescending from? I'm curious. If it was about the Flying Spaghetti Monster comment, that was actually from a "Evolution in school" debate in about the case in Kansas that through out ID as being science.


"First, there is a huge difference in intelligent design and what most people call creationism. Did you even know that?"

A difference? Yes. Huge? Not really. Stems from religion, christianity.



"There are many in the scientific community who do believe in intelligent design.."

Again, mainly by the group from the Discovery Institute. That's were you'll find almost all that advocate it. It's not really accepted in the community, plain and simple.





"1. Is mutation the cornerstone of evolution?"

Yup, I'd agree with that.


2. Do you agree that science has shown that many more negative mutations occur than positive?

Well, more than 99% of the species that have been on Earth have gone extinct so I would say that is SOMEWHAT true. But then again, species usually don't go extinct because of negative mutations. In many cases I think evolution was a product of an environment. In all species there are many variances, when a change in the environment occur then the animals that can't adapt will go extinct. Sometimes though, a particular mutation is beneficial so that the original environment is easier to conquer.

"3. Do you agree that a negative mutation is likely to result in extinction?"

You answered that one for me.

"4.Do you agree that a series of positive mutations is likely to result in a advancement in life form?"

If a particular animal happens to survive an environmental change or a feature is more beneficial so that procreation is more likely, then the particular mutated trait will remain. Eventually after millions of years, after dozens of different changes within the population the common specimen cannot mate with the form it's ancestors were in and therefore is a new species.

[Jason]

Without reading into this I will speak my piece and be done with it. Everything is too perfect to have evolved. There has to be a greater power that created this and us. Evolution is the most rediculous garbage I have ever tried to study. Just the evolution of the woodpecker got me. Dont remember where I read it or watched it but it said something to the extent of taking so many millions of years for the woodpecker to develop that cusion between the beak and brain to keep them from killing themselves. Now tell me what kept them from going extinct? To tell me if they did not have that part they could not survive but then tell me it to so many years to develop is crazy. If that is what they will be teaching my kids in school then I will home school them. Things are too perfect to have developed over millions of years.

I thank GOD for what he has given us. The good Lord said it would be like this toward the end of the world. Most of the world will be unbelievers. Jesus is coming soon I believe and when it happens he will be here in the twinkle of an eye. The devil is gaining more and more ground everyday. I can tell a huge difference just in the last 10 years. Just turn on the tv.

[R13]

"The ID movement does not want creationism taught in our schools, don't even want ID to be mandatory for now at least.."

Ever heard of "Pandas and People"?

"The ID movement does not want evolutionary teaching to be removed for schools."

Hmmmmmmmm. The whole movement was started as a rebuttal to Edwards v. Aguillard, so I don't believe that at all.


"I'm sure you are familiar with the work of researches Miller and Urey. They are the guys who in the early 50's (53?) created the "building blocks" of life (amino acids) by concocting a primordial soup surrounded by the gases believed to be present on earth at the time. When this was exposed to an electrical charge (simulating lightning) very simple amino acids did occur. Although they were never able to go much further than very simple amino acids their study and finding were legit. It is taught in schools today as a strong evidence for the evolutionary theory of the origins of life.

So, what is the issue?

Bet you aren't familiar with this. By the mid 1970's science had determined that the mixture of gases we thought to be present on earth at the time of Miller and Urey's study in fact were definitely wrong."



That doesn't make them a big bunch of filthy liars or anyone liars. It doesn't mean a conspiracy cover-up either. It means an experiment that wasn't really correct and still not known really to this day.



And buckeye posted really the rest of what I was thinking. I don't really see the argument for ID or explaining how there is more evidence. But this argument just started and he hasn't really had time to explain that like he said.

[buckeye_fan]

Without reading into this I will speak my piece and be done with it. Everything is too perfect to have evolved. There has to be a greater power that created this and us. Evolution is the most rediculous garbage I have ever tried to study. Just the evolution of the woodpecker got me. Dont remember where I read it or watched it but it said something to the extent of taking so many millions of years for the woodpecker to develop that cusion between the beak and brain to keep them from killing themselves. Now tell me what kept them from going extinct? To tell me if they did not have that part they could not survive but then tell me it to so many years to develop is crazy. If that is what they will be teaching my kids in school then I will home school them. Things are too perfect to have developed over millions of years.

I thank GOD for what he has given us. The good Lord said it would be like this toward the end of the world. Most of the world will be unbelievers. Jesus is coming soon I believe and when it happens he will be here in the twinkle of an eye. The devil is gaining more and more ground everyday. I can tell a huge difference just in the last 10 years. Just turn on the tv.

I hate to burst your bubble, but everything is far from perfect. What we have is great, but no where near perfect, which is what we should expect from a perfect god. One example, common enlargement of the prostate which happens of natural causes. If this happens, why is it made close enough to the urethra and block it. This urinary retention leads to pain (obviously) and damage to the urinary tract and kidneys unless treated. Perfect body system? No.

[R13]

"Without reading into this I will speak my piece and be done with it."

Well, maybe should.

"Everything is too perfect to have evolved."

It's not that perfect, at all and that's just pure opinion.


"There has to be a greater power that created this and us".

No it doesn't, just your belief.

"Evolution is the most rediculous garbage I have ever tried to study."

It's only ridiculous to those who know little about it...mainly from the "We didn't come from monkeys" belief that isn't even Evolution at all.


"If that is what they will be teaching my kids in school then I will home school them." Things are too perfect to have developed over millions of years."

Wouldn't suggest it, but have at it. Again, it's hardly perfect.

"The good Lord said it would be like this toward the end of the world. Most of the world will be unbelievers. Jesus is coming soon I believe and when it happens he will be here in the twinkle of an eye. The devil is gaining more and more ground everyday. I can tell a huge difference just in the last 10 years. Just turn on the tv."

I don't really want this thread to get into that discussion, I mean another thread dealing with it would be good and I might start one like it. But I'll say this..Jesus has been coming for a long time now, but apparently he hasn't yet. People have been matching up events with prophecies since Jesus came the first time, according to them the world has been ending for quite some time now..but time keeps going on and it has passed time and time again. Whatever current events you try to compare now, there have been ones in the past that have matched up with the prophecies in the Bible more correctly, but it didn't end then. Just my take on it, hope I'm right too..if not, I'm screwed if it does end. :grin:

[Jason]

I hate to burst your bubble, but everything is far from perfect. What we have is great, but no where near perfect, which is what we should expect from a perfect god. One example, common enlargement of the prostate which happens of natural causes. If this happens, why is it made close enough to the urethra and block it. This urinary retention leads to pain (obviously) and damage to the urinary tract and kidneys unless treated. Perfect body system? No.

Not to burst your bubble but could be alot worse too. Key word is treated. In a not so perfect world there could be no medicines to treat the illnesses we get.

[buckeye_fan]

Not to burst your bubble but could be alot worse too. Key word is treated. In a not so perfect world there could be no medicines to treat the illnesses we get.

If I'm not mistaken, medicines were made by men. God didn't hand down vaccinations or tell us how to perform surgeries to treat that. Men used science to help this. In a so perfect system that he made for us it wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

[Jason]

[QUOTE=Burton13;1776621]"There has to be a greater power that created this and us".

No it doesn't, just your belief. QUOTE]



Just like Evolution is your belief. You can find all you want on the so called facts of Evolution but the true fact is unless someone can get a time machine and go back to the past and truely see for themselves Evolution is just another religion. It is your belief that we evolved just like it is my belief we were created. Heck we both could be wrong and our Universe could be a cell in a test tube where some entirely diferent being is performing different tests on us. We could even be living in the bloodstream of an actuall Sasquatch! Who knows for sure. I just want to live with the hope that there is a God and a Heaven. I have had too many prayers answered just this year alone to be coincidense.

With that said I dont fully discredit evolution. I believe it plays a part in my belief of being created. So to answer your question I do believe in both. I think GOD created us and the Earth and evolution plays its part too. Therefore both should be taught in school.

Like I said before. Things are too perfect not to have a GOD. Not 100% perfect but not imperfect either. Could have been really perfect had Adam and Eve not eat the forbidden fruit.

[Jason]

If I'm not mistaken, medicines were made by men. God didn't hand down vaccinations or tell us how to perform surgeries to treat that. Men used science to help this. In a so perfect system that he made for us it wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

God did make the plants and organisms that medicines are made of. He also made man into an intelligent life form and gave him the knowledge to make the medicines.

[Jason]

Oh and it would have been perfect if not for Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit.

I am only stating my beliefs and I am not or will not look down on you for your beliefs. I wish you would share in my beliefs but I cant force them on you.