Evolution...

**Gotch** · May 26th, 2009, 08:23 AM

"What was wrong about what I said? And where is all this condescending from? I'm curious. If it was about the Flying Spaghetti Monster comment, that was actually from a "Evolution in school" debate in about the case in Kansas that through out ID as being science."

No, actually I believe it's from Bobby Henderson and only nominally connected to the Kansas debate because that is when he started the whole juvenile thing, and it's intent is to provoke, that was the intent from the start.

"Again, mainly by the group from the Discovery Institute. That's were you'll find almost all that advocate it. It's not really accepted in the community, plain and simple."

You clearly lack a grasp of the subject if you believe ID is restricted to the Discovery Institute. Many who hold some degree of ID leanings are afraid to utter it. Why? Look at the reaction on this thread for a clue. Why face the ridicule and possible black balling. Instead of open discussion evolutionists prefer their way or the highway, no room for open debate.

"Not really. Stems from religion, christianity."

Oh boy......what the true ID movement is saying is that if nature shows signs of design, then a designer must exist. Nothing else.

"It's not really accepted in the community, plain and simple."

See my post above. I personally know a couple who are afraid to speak out, they do exist. Is silence by intimidation proper?

"Well, more than 99% of the species that have been on Earth have gone extinct so I would say that is SOMEWHAT true. But then again, species usually don't go extinct because of negative mutations. In many cases I think evolution was a product of an environment. In all species there are many variances, when a change in the environment occur then the animals that can't adapt will go extinct. Sometimes though, a particular mutation is beneficial so that the original environment is easier to conquer."

Let's just get to the point. About 70% of all mutations are negative and many of the other 30% are neutral. Most beneficial mutations are only nominally so.

"You answered that one for me."

No I didn't...

"If a particular animal happens to survive an environmental change or a feature is more beneficial so that procreation is more likely, then the particular mutated trait will remain. Eventually after millions of years, after dozens of different changes within the population the common specimen cannot mate with the form it's ancestors were in and therefore is a new species."

Okay....pretty clear on where we stand then....

**sup-rbeast** · May 26th, 2009, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by Jason

Everything is too perfect to have evolved.

Huh? I want to live wherever you live... If everything was too perfect, we wouldn't have the dysfunction in the world we do. I've heard it all, but that argument is ridiculous. There's as much proof that we were dropped off here by martians as there is for Creationism or Intelligent Design...and that would be NONE.

**Gotch** · May 26th, 2009, 08:32 AM

"Ever heard of "Pandas and People"?"

Yep, that was the "Foundation for Thought and Ethics", had zippo to do with the current ID movement.

"Hmmmmmmmm. The whole movement was started as a rebuttal to Edwards v. Aguillard, so I don't believe that at all."

That concerned creationism, not even true ID? What's up with your sources?

"That doesn't make them a big bunch of filthy liars or anyone liars. It doesn't mean a conspiracy cover-up either. It means an experiment that wasn't really correct and still not known really to this day."

Actually it does. A 70+ year cover-up and a 30+ year curtain of silence are not accidents, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you expect me to make a post and explain my whole position?????????

I said before that this was going to take time, a lot of time.........and I'm out of time for now.

**Gotch** · May 26th, 2009, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by Jason

Just the evolution of the woodpecker got me. Dont remember where I read it or watched it but it said something to the extent of taking so many millions of years for the woodpecker to develop that cusion between the beak and brain to keep them from killing themselves. Now tell me what kept them from going extinct?

It's jumpimg wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy ahead, but do you guys want to answer this and stop attacking the poster for his other beliefs? Thanks......

**CoeburnCane** · May 26th, 2009, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Jason

I am only stating my beliefs and I am not or will not look down on you for your beliefs. I wish you would share in my beliefs but I cant force them on you.

If only others had that kind of approach to their beliefs, maybe there wouldn't be so much controversy & ill will in this world. Props for putting that out there because it is SO true.

**1inStripes** · May 26th, 2009, 09:31 AM

Who knows Gotch, maybe Burton and buckeye are Anthony Flew JRs in the waiting.

**sup-rbeast** · May 26th, 2009, 09:58 AM

My whole point is that there is no definitive proof as to how we got here, why we're here, or what purpose we serve in the grand scheme of things. I don't believe mankind is the "end game" for the universe. I think it will endure long after we are extinct. But, that doesn't make my belief any more valid than the opinions expressed by others on here. As long as your belief is valid to you, that's all that matters. As far as evolution being taught in school, IMO there is more physical evidence to support that theory than there is to support creationism or intelligent design...and , after all, it's science class. So, I don't see a problem with teaching evolution and neither of the others. If a person wants their child to be taught intelligent design or creationism, they should send them to a christian school where it is surely to be emphasized more.

**Gotch** · May 26th, 2009, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by 1inStripes

Who knows Gotch, maybe Burton and buckeye are Anthony Flew JRs in the waiting.

LOL

Been my experience that most young atheists eventually exhibit a little "Flew" later in life.

**Jason** · May 26th, 2009, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by sup-rbeast

Huh? I want to live wherever you live... If everything was too perfect, we wouldn't have the dysfunction in the world we do. I've heard it all, but that argument is ridiculous. There's as much proof that we were dropped off here by martians as there is for Creationism or Intelligent Design...and that would be NONE.

Had you read more in to my posts you would seethat I said things are perfect but not 100% perfect. Sure there is alot of sickness and disfunction but there is alot of good too. To me the good out wieghs the bad. I am not trying to intentionally argue this. B13 wanted to know our stance so I stated it. I think 100% evolution is rediculous just like you think my belief is rediculous. Also like I said evolution to me is just another religous belief. Please read some of the other posts that I made after the one you quoted. We might even be fictional characters in a novel. That holds just as much ground as any other belief. But what happens if the Bible is right? I want that extra insurance myself. My church doesnt believe you have to be physically Baptised but I had it done just in case.