Dissapointed

I must admit, I am very dissapointed that the Reality thread is locked.
I don't feel heated discussions are wrong. In fact, I believe we learn from them.
Is that the precedent of this board? Whenever a moderator feels he has heard enough he locks it? I'm not sure I'll be coming back in that case. Communism is not something I'm fond of. I love speaking freely and being subjected to others actual feelings.
I did discover a few other boards due to my reading up on this site. Maybe some of you can join me there, where we can discuss music and it's preconceptions without someone interjecting.
I'm dissapointed. Why have a forum if it's so controlled? It acts like an advertising arena rather than a discussion.

Before I do this, Mr. moderators, would you mind if I started a Jazz Drumming thread? For us who enjoy discussion and opinions? I Just noticed the great Peter Erskine among us. I would love his thoughts on the jazz art form and having a foundation and knowledge in a musical style.

could state their opinions and ideas, without anyone getting involved to shut them up.
Thanks for your words Groove. You know jazz.

Hey Smitty.
I've been away for the past days and recently read through the majority of the locked topic. If you hang around a little longer (I see you just joined), you will see that topics are rarely locked and discussions are allowed to develop relatively freely.
However, there comes a point where discussions slow down a little and the focus of the first post becomes blurred. People start going off on different tangents and we don't get anywhere. Nobody forces you to stay here, but I think you'll have a hard time finding a board that satisfies you more, in terms of "freedom of speech".

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 04, 2005 06:31 PM: Message edited by: Suspiria ]</font>

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Originally posted by Groovesmitty:
I don't feel heated discussions are wrong. In fact, I believe we learn from them.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, we do. Sadly, that was no longer a discussion - which is usually distinguished by exchanges of ideas. It had degenerated into two camps in their snow forts, chucking snowballs at one another and shouting "yahboosucks." Neither was about to convince the other of anything.

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Communism is not something I'm fond of.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nor, based on that analogy, something you seem to have much of an understanding of.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 04, 2005 06:37 PM: Message edited by: moosetication ]</font>

You handled that post well, GS. [img]wink.gif[/img]

In a more constructive manner:

Please, no way startig it up again, but - SDK, para, awa flarob all make valid points. No doubt.

It's more the timing & tone & manner in which the opins are dispensed, i believe, that sets some on edge. So perhaps we can ALL work on or learn from this.

Those points in that thread about jazz are all very true. But belaboring a point & beating it over someone's head to death with some condescension can be quite the cumbersome.

Vince is a great drummer, as is Hass, & 99% of the cats we respectfully speak of in here. Let's just give a little more thought to the presentation of our debates, which is mainly what this forum has always been about in the near 4 yrs I've been around.

I didn't know someone had made any derrogatory comments about Hass, other that he didn't get what all the consistent fuss was about from certain members, much as there's fuss about Vince from others. Why? Because they're great players, that's why.

There just seemed to be an underlying tone w cerain members who tout one partic player & whom come on when someone is perceivd as touting another, which is a little well, pedestrian if you ask me. Discussing the meaning awa the INTENT of jazz is never a problem. It gets dicey when there's a perceived holier than thou att to go with it. I've been watching for a long time, so this is not something i pulled out of my hat overnight. I just weighed in on it today. & i tend to joke somewhat in my presentation, but alas, some just don't get that. That's OK.

But I did think the last comment made to Cameron was incorrect awa a tad harsh, as that is not what i read Cam to have said at all. In fact, that was said by one of the others, about fills defining a genre, which is ridic, even tho certain approaches to types of fills can be indicative in a genre. And he did NOT say it about Stewart or the other player.

Anyway, those guys are all great - we all know it. And we all have our personal opins about a player's playing style. And there are historical facts AW - Jazz has its roots, eras, genre-specifics awa & stylistic intricacies, this is true AW.

But going to another forum & "tattling" on another when there is really no reason tells a very ominous sign in my book.

Anyway, we're all entitled to our opins. & maybe we'll learn something in the process. Lets just try not to alienate a bunch of other guys right out of the gate. Forums are always going to have guys who may have "stars" in their eyes pertaining to cerain of their fave players, or who may not yet have the full grasp of what some partic genre is, & things of this nature. Just the nature of the beast. It's best to try to inform them, which is what i think those guys were trying to do, albeit in the way they did.

Peace.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 04, 2005 06:54 PM: Message edited by: got_a_matchgrip? ]</font>

I agree with Groove in this case.
The discussion was coming to an end with drummers at least coming to terms with what jazz drumming is.

I don't think his analogy was off at all. Free speech was the issue, and that's a problem in Communist nations. Duh.
Let's not get into politics, but he made a lot of sense in his comment.

I also don't think you'll have a hard time finding other boards that allow you that freedon. That is the point of forums. But I'm sticking around, and I think you should as well. It's not that bad, Steve Holmes is a musically educated guy, and he can play for real. When he steps in it's for the right reasons. I think it was one of the others that stepped in for personal reasons. Fear is tough. Give it another chance Groovesmitty. Trust me, i've been here for a minute.

Match, yes, I had to go to 'da groove house' and make it known.
I don't think it's right to talk crap about one of today's top young drummers. I notified Hass via his board, and I would notify any great drummer that someone has the 'nuts' to insult them in apublic forum, when they themselves are unkown in the industry. I was floored by his comments and his motive and I had to do something about it. I think it won't be happening again. And I don't think I did anything wrong by defending a musician I respect.

...If we all mind our Ps & Qs here this time, & present ideas constructively instead of not, you'll see that the topic will indeed not get "locked," GS... [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

Para - what are you referring to/was said? I must've missed it. Everyone has moments. };cp Don't respond here, for obv reasons, pls PM me.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 04, 2005 07:01 PM: Message edited by: got_a_matchgrip? ]</font>

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Originally posted by Paraflam:
Match, yes, I had to go to 'da groove house' and make it known.
I don't think it's right to talk crap about one of today's top young drummers. I notified Hass via his board, and I would notify any great drummer that someone has the 'nuts' to insult them in apublic forum, when they themselves are unkown in the industry. I was floored by his comments and his motive and I had to do something about it. I think it won't be happening again. And I don't think I did anything wrong by defending a musician I respect.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">One observation: If I were a great [occupation/profession], and I were insulted in a public forum by someone who was an unknown in my industry -- I don't think I would be particularly interested in hearing about it. It seems like a waste of time to worry about, yes?

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Originally posted by Flarobstix:
I don't think his analogy was off at all. Free speech was the issue, and that's a problem in Communist nations. Duh.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If freedom of speech is what he meant, that is what he should have used as his analogy. Communism in and of itself is not against freedom of speech. Don't confuse Communism with 'Communist' nations.